Game of Thrones Season 6
- Thread starter BoxsterCy
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It's just rough when a character you like (Bran really early on, Jon Snow for most of the series - Sansa was never enjoyable, IMO) becomes unlikable. There are some characters, too, for whom I've never understood the adoration - like Catelyn. What kind of mom leaves her unconscious, broken child and her wild, needy preschool-aged kid for months and months just out of spite? Then there is this beating of the breast when she finds out they're "dead" - well, maybe you shouldn't have left your kids home alone, and your eldest wouldn't have taken all of the North's defenses and left Winterfell susceptible to being overrun by a Greyjoy.
Catelyn was not particularly smart, nor are any of her family excpet the Blackfish maybe.
A lot my frustration with the characters in the books is that Martin had planned on a 5 year jump in time, but instead wrote books to fill that time. So we get these drawn out storylines of arduous journeys or in Dany's case some tangent about Daario. For me, the sea voyage of Tyrion and Penny may have been the worst, but the Brienne and Pod pointless boondoggle is just as bad. I mean, Tyrion is the most entertaining character IMO and those chapters were tough.
Yeah, I don't really know what Martin was hoping to accomplish with the sea voyage?! It was dull and did absolutely nothing to further the story or make it more interesting. We get it, Tyrion and Penny had a conflicted relationship.
Sansa wasn't my favorite character in the books, but her chapters were great, as she witnessed so many major events in King's Landing.
Bran's chapters got a little long, but I kind of enjoyed them as they had a different tone than the rest.
Agree with you on Catelyn as a character, her perspective was tough to read after Ned died, but her chapters usually had all the big events with Rob in them, so they were some of my favorites.
Pretty much always like Jon, but like Tyrion and Dany, he just had too many chapters in ADWD where little happened. Thankfully, the show did a fine job of cutting the fat out of their stories, and gave us some major improvements - especially in Jon's story line. Hardhome was amazing! and the assault on Craster's Keep in Season 4 was excellent too.
I do think the show has done an excellent job at trimming the fat - great way to put it. Because their stories just really became plodding for a while.
- Mar 27, 2006
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agreed on Sansa. Her point of view is great for moving the plot along, but her character is just unpleasant to me.
While I get what you're saying about Catelyn, I think you're arguing semantics with her. If Robb took every able body south with him to go to war, do you really think he would have left people behind at Winterfell? I don't. Then, instead of being killed at the Twins during the Red Wedding, she would have been killed at Winterfell, either by Theon or by the Boltons when they sack Winterfell (making it look like the Greyjoys did it). And perhaps if Catelyn is at Winterfell, perhaps Osha's influence and supervision over Bran and Rickon aren't as strong and they don't get out of Winterfell alive, meaning that the two really are dead instead of "believed dead".
See, Catelyn was Robb's voice of reason on matters he simply wasn't mature or experienced enough to understand. When Robb listened to Catelyn (such as agreeing to marry a Frey girl), things went well for Robb and the North. When Robb didn't listen to Catelyn - agreed to let Theon go home to Pyke to get the Greyjoys on their side; breaking his betrothal and marrying Jayne/Talisa instead; and killing the Karstarks - all things Catelyn vehemently opposed - things went bad. Wait - not just bad, the consequences were long-reaching. Sending Theon to Pyke led to the sacking of Winterfell. Marrying Jayne/Talisa led to the Red Wedding, the death of Robb, Catelyn, and much of the Northern army, and turned the North on itself. Killing the Karstarks turned them against the Starks and really turned the North on its head. Not to mention if Catelyn isn't there, there isn't anyone to negotiate with Renly Baratheon.
The problem is Catelyn is doomed whether she's with Robb or at Winterfell. She ends up dead regardless, whether at the sacking of Winterfell or at the Red Wedding. The only differences is that Jaime Lannister would be dead and there would be no LSH.
I think the biggest part of the episode that really gets the plot moving is that Littlefinger is back. Other than Tyrion he is easily my favorite character, but more importantly he gets the plot moving. Everything he does leads to something fairly important happening. Always plotting and scheming, one of the few playing the long game, but also playing every side he can. I am sure he will eventually die the painful death he so deserves, but I am really pulling for him.
It was great to see him back. I swear in the preview for next week, he was at Castle Black. That Jet Pack he uses to travel gives him such an advantage in the game!
I may hate her more than Joffrey. Sort of
I may hate her more than Joffrey. Sort ofShe is so incredibly shallow in her POV chapters. And if she had not betrayed her father and his plan, their whole family might still be alive.
That is all on Ned, in my opinion. She was 14 and raised innocent and naïve. She had no idea she was betraying anyone, and he did not make it clear to her like he should have.
And yet she was treated with kid gloves her entire life. Her life view is that she's a baby factory (and she's more than happy to be that - until her life gets turned upside down, anyway). She was not taught to be politically savvy - in fact, I doubt Old Nan would have wanted Sansa to be anything other than a baby factory.
No. Robb got his panties in a wad and went South specifically because Catelyn wasn't there to stop him. She was too busy first doing her cloak-and-dagger BS mission to King's Landing, and then dicking around kidnapping Tyrion and pushing things to where Robb had to act. If she'd stayed home and let Ned handle things, sent him a bird or a trusted messenger, it could have been much different. We wouldn't have a series of books, most likely, but it's not really an issue of semantics. Her leaving set everything into motion in the entire books. You could argue that the whole fallout could have been postponed/avoided if she hadn't decided to stir **** up for revenge. If she hadn't done so, Robb probably never would have left (since she had such an influence) without his father's support, experience, and sword.
I'm sorry, that's just not maternal, when she purports to have that be her entire thing.
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I never was much of a Catelyn fan either and especially not SH.
However, I would say that overthrowing the Targs was the start of everything. The Lannisters are too power hungry, Littlefinger too meddlesome, and we would have still had the Baretheon's coming after the throne at some point either when Robert gets killed or died.
The world will return to normal when a Stark is in Winterfell and the Targs have King's Landing. It is the way of this world, fire, and ice.
There's plenty of blame to go around for boneheaded maneuvers between Robb, Catelyn and Ned. Those three could not get out of their own way.