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*** COACHING SEARCH THREAD: Wednesday, June 3 ***

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The arguments on this board over the past week or two have been lacking nuance. Everyone (pro-TJ or not - which shouldn't be the only two positions to begin with) is using exceptions to try to prove their case. "Wow, look at these guys who went straight from being an assistant to having a dynasty," for example.

Whether TJ is hired, it should be on merit and fit, and he may be the best person of available options. On the other hand, he isn't the only good available option, which a lot of posters seem to want to project also.

I don't know how this will shake out, but by jumping into positions built on generalizations we have this kind of useless dialogue that doesn't help anyone....I know, welcome to the internet.
 
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ClonesTwentyOne said:
Robinson? Do we really want Obama coming to our games? :jimlad:
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Agree. Who wants a sitting president to visit during a nationally televised game and give ISU all that publicity?

Seriously, any reason people keep bringing politics into their postings? For example, I'm sure no one is interested in rehashing the $2.2 TRILLION wasted on invading Iraq and over 4,000 U.S. soldiers killed, the hurricane Katrina fiasco, Abu Ghraib, the 2008 market crash/recession (the greatest economic downturn since the Great Depression), etc. (BTW, if you're thinking I'm unpatriotic, I'm a veteran of two branches of service and served during two wars.)

I'm betting there are people reading the above facts who are angry/upset about reading them on this board. But, there are just as many who feel the same about people posting other political comments. Not as if there aren't other message boards on CF where politics can be discussed.

Back to the Cyclones, I'm very excited about what this team can accomplish this season. :)
 
Psiclone said:
Agree. Who wants a sitting president to visit during a nationally televised game and give ISU all that publicity?

Seriously, any reason people keep bringing politics into their postings? For example, I'm sure no one is interested in rehashing the $2.2 TRILLION wasted on invading Iraq and over 4,000 U.S. soldiers killed, the hurricane Katrina fiasco, Abu Ghraib, the 2008 market crash/recession (the greatest economic downturn since the Great Depression), etc. (BTW, if you're thinking I'm unpatriotic, I'm a veteran of two branches of service and served during two wars.)

I'm betting there are people reading the above facts who are angry/upset about reading them on this board. But, there are just as many who feel the same about people posting other political comments. Not as if there aren't other message boards on CF where politics can be discussed.

Back to the Cyclones, I'm very excited about what this team can accomplish this season. :)
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You do realize he had jimlad, right? And you basically posted what you said you hate posters posting.
 
This "please don't abandon us" mentality is toxic. I'm not against an Otz type hire, IF it's for the right reasons: winning and advancing the program. Not the wrong reasons: because he would be loyal and not leave us. Heck Chizik left the FB program in a better position than loyal son Rhoads will. Stop thinking like a victim.
 
DandyCyclone said:
I have the feeling Underwood is waiting for Weber to get fired. If he comes, there better be something in his contract that keeps him from leaving to go to K-State.
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I personally like Martin. He's a fun guy to watch coach and be "your guy", not really unlike Larry Eustachy's "Dr Doom".

But anyone else see a bit of a hard adjustment going from a Fred Hoiberg personality to a disciple of Frank Martin and I believe Bob Huggins? That might not be fair to Underwood, but the very little I've seen of him, he seems to fit that mold.
 
LindenCy said:
The arguments on this board over the past week or two have been lacking nuance. Everyone (pro-TJ or not - which shouldn't be the only two positions to begin with) is using exceptions to try to prove their case. "Wow, look at these guys who went straight from being an assistant to having a dynasty," for example.

Whether TJ is hired, it should be on merit and fit, and he may be the best person of available options. On the other hand, he isn't the only good available option, which a lot of posters seem to want to project also.

I don't know how this will shake out, but by jumping into positions built on generalizations we have this kind of useless dialogue that doesn't help anyone....I know, welcome to the internet.
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Agreed. There are examples to support every argument out there. It's all about what is the best fit for ISU basketball and that is up to JP and company to decide.
 
Re: To everyone wanting a BIG name

RubyClone said:
Well when one make's a statement that he's "everything we want". Well, I want a proven head coach.

But since you made the comparison.... what was TJ's playing record and accolades? All Big 8? All American. How many years in the NBA as a player? How many in a front office? Who did he play for in the NBA? Larry Brown? Larry Bird? What contacts and other tutelage does he have? Whose offices has he sat in and what exactly is his experience running the pro-sets that made Hoiberg so successful and probably are key to our success, at least with this current crop of players?

I don't see how one can compare Fred to TJ
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Indeed. Fred learned the game from Johnny, Tim Floyd, Larry Brown, Larry Bird, Flip Saunders, Kevin McHale ... multiple hall of famers.

TJ spent three years with Fred. Who are his other mentors? McDermott and Romar?

FWIW, I think the controversy at Oregon disqualifies Altman given the Dept. of Education's current interest in ISU's Title IX compliance (along with 100 or so other institutions around the country).
 
Larry Brown actually makes a ton of sense. He doesn't like to stay places long but destroys it(in a good way) wherever he goes. It's scary how good we could be with him coaching this years team. If TJ is in our long term plans, than who better for him to learn from for a couple years. I'd bet Brown would be game to take this thing on for a 3 year contract to have a real shot at a NC, then bolt after 2 years and TJ is probably more ready. As crazy as it sounded at first, I love it.
 
Re: To everyone wanting a BIG name

RubyClone said:
Well - it's a bit much to say hiring TJ is a torpedo. It's a lot, in fact.

TJ may make an excellent coach. But the comparison of "well Fred didn't have any experience" as a the measuring stick is ludicrous.

From what I'm seeing of the options for our HC, and my personal preferences (which of course you all should get on board with :wink:), TJ is on it, but down the list a bit. I'm underwhelmed by the mid-major options - but admit I know absolutely nothing about any of them.

However, the guys I prefer ahead of him are medium shots at best - so I'm inclined to think he'll get the job - in no small part for the reasons you state.
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I have looked at a lot of the mid-major coaches that have been mentioned. Many chinks in their armor. They are a crapshoot.

IMO, the best hire of all would be Altman. The guy can coach. He can recruit. He has established programs. He has been a National Coach of the Year. And Altman has a great record in winning the close games and is known as one of the best coaches there is in those situations. For a veteran team like we have coming back, Altman is the best choice.......bar none.

That being said, Other options I would consider would be Hornacek....but donors have some issues with him. And Otz......IMO, his association with Fred and with our players trumps a lot of the mid-majors cited. IF you really feel Fred was a basketball mind, then WHY wouldn't you want a protege of Fred's instead of some unknown.....both in personality and in coaching. Chances are Otz is more like Fred than anyone else. But I want Altman, because he really is a very good coach. And a known quantity.
 
Re: To everyone wanting a BIG name

KCCLONE712 said:
I am surprised with everyone who wants a big splash hire. Sure all these names sounds great but what happens at the end of the day if we keep racking up the wins and make some deep runs in the NCAA tournament? Odds are they will leave again, maybe for a "bigger" college program.

Otzelberger has everything thing we are looking for. To me he is a proven recruiter. Heck, if he can recruit guys to play under McDermott's style of play he can recruit anyone. He has a long history here and it seems like his family wants to be here long term. Allison's comments on their kids seeing their first game would be at Hilton and not Washington was pretty reveling how much Iowa State means to them. The current kids already love him and he recruited a lot of them. He is obviously going to keep they same style of play.
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So instead of having a coach that can win despite using us as a stepping stone, you'd rather get a no name and not win? Glad you're not our AD!

Why are you buying into this "long term" and "family" here? Haven't you learned by now that no matter who we hire (Fred Hoiberg), those aspects don't mean diddly? If we have to bring in a new coach every 3-4 years because they want to use us as a stepping stone but win, I'd rather do that than make a Rhoads-like hire for our basketball program. You pick the best guy for the job and over time you try to keep him.
 
RubyClone said:
I personally like Martin. He's a fun guy to watch coach and be "your guy", not really unlike Larry Eustachy's "Dr Doom".

But anyone else see a bit of a hard adjustment going from a Fred Hoiberg personality to a disciple of Frank Martin and I believe Bob Huggins? That might not be fair to Underwood, but the very little I've seen of him, he seems to fit that mold.
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You don't not fit that mold working with those two guys. Look at WVU's bench during their games. Huggins out 5 feet on the court or leaning on the scores table constantly taking the refs attention. Every asst. on the bench up shouting and wildly waving their arms at all times.
 
clonetil01 said:
Larry Brown actually makes a ton of sense. He doesn't like to stay places long but destroys it(in a good way) wherever he goes. It's scary how good we could be with him coaching this years team. If TJ is in our long term plans, than who better for him to learn from for a couple years. I'd bet Brown would be game to take this thing on for a 3 year contract to have a real shot at a NC, then bolt after 2 years and TJ is probably more ready. As crazy as it sounded at first, I love it.
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Go back to Lawrence Jayhok.
 
The hiring of TJ definitely won't excite the fan base. Too many will see Morgan 2.0

To be fair to TJ....the hiring of anyone not named "Hoiberg" will probably result in 50% or more of fan base being disappointed.
 
with regards to Underwood and Kansas St., I don't think it's a slam dunk that Underwood would bolt to Kansas St. after a year at Iowa St. Remember that Martin and Currie (K-St. AD) had a pretty bad relationship at the end and was the main reason that Martin went to South Carolina. Underwood was the assistant and followed him to South Carolina. I could see Currie and Underwood not having a great relationship with how that all went down.
 
Psiclone said:
Agree. Who wants a sitting president to visit during a nationally televised game and give ISU all that publicity?

Seriously, any reason people keep bringing politics into their postings? For example, I'm sure no one is interested in rehashing the $2.2 TRILLION wasted on invading Iraq and over 4,000 U.S. soldiers killed, the hurricane Katrina fiasco, Abu Ghraib, the 2008 market crash/recession (the greatest economic downturn since the Great Depression), etc. (BTW, if you're thinking I'm unpatriotic, I'm a veteran of two branches of service and served during two wars.)

I'm betting there are people reading the above facts who are angry/upset about reading them on this board. But, there are just as many who feel the same about people posting other political comments. Not as if there aren't other message boards on CF where politics can be discussed.

Back to the Cyclones, I'm very excited about what this team can accomplish this season. :)
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Congrats...with one post, you hit my ignore list. Usually it takes 2 or 3 times where I'm really annoyed by someone. See that little pirate guy behind the post you quoted? That means he's being sarcastic. Which means he really would like to see Obama at a game, or he's poking fun at the people who would see that as a negative just because of their deep seated political hatred.

But you didn't see that, and over-reacted into a 3 paragraph rant...essentially doing exactly what you accused the poster of doing, despite the fact that he didn't do what you think he was doing.
 
I am really curious who the 2nd "surprise" candidate is...If we are anywhere near throwing 5 mil at somebody that is a whole another group of candidates

I guess sitting right now I would be ok with TJ, Prohm, or Altman...
 
Thought experiment... if you were a head coach, would you rather go a scenario where?
  1. you have a loaded roster year 1 with massive expectations, but the cupboard is potentially bare year 2
  2. you have a longer leash year 1 to make some adjustments and implement your system, and you have a solid core of underclassmen/recruits that you can build around or use as role players
 
Frak said:
Logic is right. The only question is whether Pollard told him he would be he HC or just in the running. It sure looks like he has been acting HC for awhile if you follow who ISU has offered in the last month.
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Or, you know, Assistant Head Coach, which is his position.
 
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