Heavy Handed?

[CyValley]

Where I live, some would consider your statement concerning Morgan..."But not everyone is cut out to be a head coach"...a form of racism. I do not think you made that comment from a racist point of view but, believe me, some do make these type of comments where I live in the south as a form of what I would call "latent racism".

The bottom line is that many are willing to go the wall for McDermott because he is "one of them" whereas that same affinity did not exist for Morgan. This is how we get the "Morgan was lousy and McDermott is great" talk when their records (the primary measurable upon which a coach is judged) at ISU indicate something different.

I believe you, Cyclonenum1. Today, I work a throw-away blue collar job. From my observations, racism is alive and well in this society, albeit manifested in far different ways than when I was a teen in the 1960s. (I don't doubt that racism exists on both sides of the "aisle," too.)

January last, when the MLK holiday received a few comments in the office (all whites present), I chipped in a few comments that went contrary to the grain. I said that I consider MLK to be one of the great Americans, an individual who made a lasting, positive impact on our national life.

Interpreting the looks on the faces of the white people in the room, I must say those were the most dumbfounded expressions that I have ever seen on human beings.

Just an anecdote, one that no doubt can be interpreted various ways, but. . . .

I was a sports journalist in eastern Iowa during George Raveling's time as the eiu MBB coach. Clear racial attitudes made themselves evident at that time, too.

 

[CloneFan65]

I'm sure you are right about this...however, I was answering someone that asked the question (and I paraphrase here) "why does Morgan get hammered so badly on this site when his name is mentioned". The question was not why did JP fire Morgan.

You can give me all of the negative rep you want but having grown up in Iowa, and now having lived all over the country, I have come to realize that Iowa is just not a very diverse place. That is not to knock Iowa...I am proud to be an Iowan...it is just the reality. The state has a population that is 95% white (from census) and 3% black (again from census).

Several months ago when there was a thread about Jena, LA I stated that I would venture a guess that the typical person posting on this site that resides in Iowa probably never comes in contact with a black person other than at an athletic event (such as an ISU game).

Where I live, some would consider your statement concerning Morgan..."But not everyone is cut out to be a head coach"...a form of racism. I do not think you made that comment from a racist point of view but, believe me, some do make these type of comments where I live in the south as a form of what I would call "latent racism".

The bottom line is that many are willing to go the wall for McDermott because he is "one of them" whereas that same affinity did not exist for Morgan. This is how we get the "Morgan was lousy and McDermott is great" talk when their records (the primary measurable upon which a coach is judged) at ISU indicate something different.

1) Personally I never gave you any negative rep. I had no reason to. I don't give negative rep just because someone has a differing opinion, as long as they're civil in their posts, and you certainly were.

2) There may be some Cyclone fans who were harder on Morgan due to his race, but I believe that's a small minority. Although Iowa is a homogenous state, I've found Iowans (in general) to be very open and accepting of people from different backgrounds and cultures.

Whether or not someone thinks Morgan's firing is justified, it's hard to argue that he's a better head coach than McDermott based on their coaching experience and history.

 

[bos]

January last, when the MLK holiday received a few comments in the office (all whites present), I chipped in a few comments that went contrary to the grain. I said that I consider MLK to be one of the great Americans, an individual who made a lasting, positive impact on our national life.
.

If I said that to anyone in Sioux City, I would probably get agreement. To generalize Iowa as being this way is absurd. Are there some here and there? Sure. In reality I believe Iowa to be way more educated and open than most states I have been to and had to work with. The whole idea that we give McD more leniency over Wayne because of color is hogwash and ignorant. I dont even know why it would come up other than someone out there just waits for an opportunity to say it and shake up the bees nest.

 

[CyValley]

If I said that to anyone in Sioux City, I would probably get agreement. To generalize Iowa as being this way is absurd.

How do you arrive at your generalizations about every day life, then, if you do not extrapolate from your own experiences?

For you, it is absurd. For me, it is not absurd. I reach an understanding about life as it exists here largely from my personal experiences with my fellow citizens (I do read, too).

The whole idea that we give McD more leniency over Wayne because of color is hogwash and ignorant. I dont even know why it would come up other than someone out there just waits for an opportunity to say it and shake up the bees nest.

IMO, part of being an educated human being is coming to an understanding that others in this world might hold contrary opinions to one's own, and that those contrary opinions are not necessarily hogwash and ignorant because they are different from one's own.

In my experience, color makes a difference in this society. I wish that it did not, because I have a layman's understanding that the human genome is the same for every hominid on the planet; that every human being walking the earth today is a genetic descendant of one female who existed eons ago; that we all are out of Africa.

Racism exists in our society (including in Iowa, where I live), imo. I see evidence of it frequently. That being the case, imo, it is not far-fetched to believe that Morgan is viewed differently from McDermott by some because of race.

I will not duplicate your discourtesy by labeling your views "hogwash" and "ignorant" since I do understand that reasonable people can arrive at different opinions about the same subject matter.

 

[bos]

So you are telling me its ok to generalize because of your personal experience? So when I say I experience some bad drivers in Iowa, then I am more than welcome to just say Iowans are bad drivers to anyone I know. Great. Now I have just clumped a bunch of good drivers in with the bad, because my experiences in my small world are good enough to smother reality. When you generalize you close yourself in. I dont disagree that racism is out there and many peoples lives are affected by it day in and day out, but we have come a long way as a society, no matter what the media might say.

 

[Todd]

Personally, I don't care what color the coach is....I just want to see some solid, fundamental basketball. Maybe McD can get us there and maybe not but, Morgan certainly wasn't. Not sure if that makes me a racist or not.
Would I be a racist if I was black and thought Quinn Snyder was in over his head as a Head coach? or would I simply be correct?

 

[bellzisu]

People.... This thread is about JP and the job he is doing. How in the heck do we get to a point we are argueing about race?

Race had nothing to do with Morgan being fired. Just as a fan of ISU and someone reading this thread, I find it a joke that someone would turn this into a race issue. Are you serious??

I'm not trying to belittle the person who brought it up, and I'm sure someone will take offense to this. But why did we have to go down this avenue?? Are we that bored??

Morgan is gone. McD is here for at least 3 more years according to his contract. I have never seen fans from ISU sound like this. I'm truely starting to think there might be more intelligence over HN then there is here lately with some of these threads and posts.

Lets face it people... If McD doesn't get his act in gear he will be in the same situation that Morgan is and that is unemployed. All coaches in the country face that. So lets sit back and enjoy the ride, instead of argueing about race, ticket prices for football, entrance music for football, and attendance.

 

[CyValley]

So you are telling me its ok to generalize because of your personal experience?

Yes. I believe every human being alive makes generalizations based on personal experiences. It's part of the human condition, part and parcel of human personality. We're told the human brain processes data at an incredible rate, which allows us to make immediate judgments about our surrounding world. Those judgments are informed by our past learning experiences.

When I prepare to walk across a highway, my personal experiences inform my judgment and tell me to be wary, tell me that automobiles are big, heavy objects and can be dangerous. My personal experiences tell me that a driver might not be alert to his surroundings every second he's behind the wheel.

Even though this particular driver might be fully on top of his game, I will proceed carefully when crossing the highway because my personal experiences instruct me that at times the opposite can be true.

So when I say I experience some bad drivers in Iowa, then I am more than welcome to just say Iowans are bad drivers to anyone I know. Great. Now I have just clumped a bunch of good drivers in with the bad, because my experiences in my small world are good enough to smother reality. When you generalize you close yourself in.

I disagree. When you generalize (and your generalizations are updated frequently because your brain is constantly processing) you reach a fuller, more complete understanding of the world about you.

I have driven in many places, I think maybe in 46 or so states. My generalization is not that all Iowans are poor drivers, my experiences tell me this is not so. I do understand, based on my experiences, that some drivers everywhere are poor drivers and that it's best to be on guard.

My experiences have also informed me that racism is a continuing problem in human society. I do not say that racism is particularly evident in Ames, Iowa (although in some locations in this country, my experiences tell me racism is more virulent than in other locations). But, my experiences tell me that racism is absent no where, therefore it exists in Ames, too.

I dont disagree that racism is out there and many peoples lives are affected by it day in and day out, but we have come a long way as a society, no matter what the media might say.

Then, I don't see that we disagree. If you acknowledge that racism is out there, certainly you do not deny that some people view Morgan from a racial perspective. Is that not what some of us here are saying, that racism is not absent from some of the views propounded by ISU fans about Morgan?

 

[bellzisu]

CyValley... Give it up... It's old we get the point. Please. Soon I'm going to clump all journalism and media people along with people posting on threads as annoying and a waste of time.

Just my generalization:wink:

 

[CyValley]

Race had nothing to do with Morgan being fired.

I think that you are correct, race had nothing to do with Morgan's firing (but likely not one of us knows that for a fact). It does, though, some of us believe, have something to do with the views that some ISU fans hold about Morgan and, consequently, about his job performance at ISU.

why did we have to go down this avenue?? Are we that bored??

Can you not understand and accept that others might have interests that vary from yours? On the contrary, I am not bored by the subject but am, in fact, highly interested in it.

Interesting things often lead to discussion. If you do not find the topic interesting, why not leave it to those of us who do find it interesting rather than suggest the topic should not be discussed? Or, should we all cater to your personal point of view? Do you claim to rule the roost?

(BTW, I'm an unadulterated, 100 percent supporter of GMac. At the same time, I believe Morgan might have been let go prematurely. GMac-Morgan, it's not necessarily an either/or situation.)

 

[bos]

Can you not understand and accept that others might have interests that vary from yours? On the contrary, I am not bored by the subject but am, in fact, highly interested in it.

Interesting things often lead to discussion. If you do not find the topic interesting, why not leave it to those of us who do find it interesting rather than suggest the topic should not be discussed? Or, should we all cater to your personal point of view? Do you claim to rule the roost?

Maybe it deserves a new thread on the politics channel. What he was trying to say is keep it on topic. I apologize that I participated in the off topic portion.

 

[CyValley]

CyValley... Give it up... It's old we get the point. Please. Soon I'm going to clump all journalism and media people along with people posting on threads as annoying and a waste of time.

Go ahead and clump, what can it matter?

Many, many times I read posts here that are, to me, inane, and/or illogical, and/or repetitive, and/or poorly thought out. I don't recall, though, that I've ever exhibited the audacity to suggest that these persons should not have posted what they posted. I do not possess that sort of arrogance to believe that this message board should be limited to topics or information or comments that only I find interesting.

Sometimes I take issue with opinions given here. I don't recall, though, that I've ever expressed the thought that a person should give it up and not make a post because in some way I find that post tiresome. But, maybe, that's just me.

 

[bellzisu]

I think that you are correct, race had nothing to do with Morgan's firing (but likely not one of us knows that for a fact). It does, though, some of us believe, have something to do with the views that some ISU fans hold about Morgan and, consequently, about his job performance at ISU.



Can you not understand and accept that others might have interests that vary from yours? On the contrary, I am not bored by the subject but am, in fact, highly interested in it.

Interesting things often lead to discussion. If you do not find the topic interesting, why not leave it to those of us who do find it interesting rather than suggest the topic should not be discussed? Or, should we all cater to your personal point of view? Do you claim to rule the roost?

(BTW, I'm an unadulterated, 100 percent supporter of GMac. At the same time, I believe Morgan might have been let go prematurely. GMac-Morgan, it's not necessarily an either/or situation.)

Yes discussion is good. But I like how you pulled up just the quote about people being bored... MY POINT RACE DIDN"T PLAY A ROLE. WHY DO PEOPLE BRING IT UP CONCERNING THIS? Is our country all about bring up the race card about everything concerning someone that is black.

Racism still exists yes, but why bring it into the mix on a message board and keep stirring the pot.

Yes I would love everyone to cater to me also. That's the American Dream my friend. So in between discussing this and picking apart my thread could you please be a good chap and run and grab me a beer or two.... Because in my opinion I do rule my own roost.:yes:

Almost forgot...

Hear me cluckin big chickin

 

[cyismydog]

Okay, back to the topic, "Does GMAc connect well with his players?"

 

[CyValley]

Maybe it deserves a new thread on the politics channel. What he was trying to say is keep it on topic. I apologize that I participated in the off topic portion.

Morgan and racism is not ISU-related, you contend? Or, is it just that you, personally, do not approve of the topic while others of us do?

 

[Aclone]

Morgan and racism is not ISU-related, you contend? Or, is it just that you, personally, do not approve of the topic while others of us do?

Look at the head of the thread. The topic is "Pollard Heavy Handed?"

 

[CyValley]

Racism still exists yes, but why bring it into the mix on a message board and keep stirring the pot.

Because some of us choose to?

Because some of us do not limit our opinions, and our expressions of those opinions, to what you view is allowable?

Because some of us are not willing to extend to you that sort of authority over what we view is or is not ISU-related?

 

[Clone_12]

Most of the people that wanted Morgan gone were excited about the potential of Rob Jeter being ISU's next coach...people didn't like Morgan because they got tired of watching extremely quick guards getting outhustled down the court for dunks and layups by slower, less athletic players on a consistant basis...at least with McDermott, you know you'll get effort. No matter how much talent you have, you can't overachieve without a consistant effort...and the only time you will ever see me publically insult an Iowa State athlete is when they aren't playing hard, or if they are acting like babies on the court (which often happened). If McDermott gets the talent here (and I personally believe he will) we will win. No matter how much talent Wayne brought in, you never knew if we were going to win at Kansas, or lose at home to Colorado or Fresno State, because you didn't know if they were going to play hard or not. And unless Wayne just all of a sudden changed his coaching philosiphy...we were never going to overachieve (or reach our potential) with him, regardless of talent.

 

[cy1225]

I would have liked to have seen Eustachy given a suspension until he completed a rehab program, then bring him back with the understanding that next time something like that happened he was gone. The biggest problem I had with the firing was that the AD knew about this issue before it became public, yet didn't do anything about it. It wasn't until it became public that it was behavior bad enough to get fired over.

Having said all that, we're on our second coach since then and it's time to move on as a fan base and program.

I believe he did and LE was not honest. Also I believe there was more to it than just pictures. You cannot just fire someone who has a 10 year guaranteed contract at $1 million a year unlesss you have cause. Why did LE wait untill April when he was fired to tell everyone he was an alcoholic?

 

[Aclone]

Because some of us choose to?

Because some of us do not limit our opinions, and our expressions of those opinions, to what you view is allowable?

Because some of us are not willing to extend to you that sort of authority over what we view is or is not ISU-related?

Then please start a thread for it in the appropriate area. Then all of you can argue about it there, instead of hijacking a thread.

Where are the mods?