Big 12 POY

[VeloClone]

I could see Ejim winning the AP and somebody else winning the coaches. The reason I don't think Ejim wins the coaches is because he is probably the 3rd guy on this ISU you prepare for, so he may not have the respect.

I could be totally wrong and maybe the coaches appreciate Ejim's hustle and garbage buckets more than I am crediting them with. I don't know. You can make a good argument for any of the Top 5.

You make good points but I think those same coaches will recognize that a player who has no business leading the league in rebounding one year - and does - and has no business leading the league in scoring the next year - and does - is pretty damn good. I know it is a one year award but Ejim having the ability to produce whatever the team he is on needs will speak quite loudly to coaches.

That said, I will expect Ejim to get snubbed until I see him handed the trophy.

 

[twocoach]

You make good points but I think those same coaches will recognize that a player who has no business leading the league in rebounding one year - and does - and has no business leading the league in scoring the next year - and does - is pretty damn good. I know it is a one year award but Ejim having the ability to produce whatever the team he is on needs will speak quite loudly to coaches.That said, I will expect Ejim to get snubbed until I see him handed the trophy.

Why would you say he has "no business" doing such things? He's an excellent player and excellent players typically have excellent stats. He isn't the first sub 6'8" guy to be a great rebounder/scorer in the Big 12. Damion James was a "listed" 6'7" and was a rebounding monster at Texas. Picking Ejim, Kane or Wiggins doersn't mean that the other ones got snubbed. The only way this is a snub to anyone is if they give it to Smart, who should be disqualified from consideration as part of his suspension for assaulting a fan.

 

[cyclonespiker33]

Why would you say he has "no business" doing such things? He's an excellent player and excellent players typically have excellent stats. He isn't the first sub 6'8" guy to be a great rebounder/scorer in the Big 12. Damion James was a "listed" 6'7" and was a rebounding monster at Texas. Picking Ejim, Kane or Wiggins doersn't mean that the other ones got snubbed. The only way this is a snub to anyone is if they give it to Smart, who should be disqualified from consideration as part of his suspension for assaulting a fan.

I would say Wiggins, Kane, Ejim, or Staten wouldn't surprise me. Anyone one else could be considered a "snub" (yes that includes Embiid)

 

[twocoach]

I would say Wiggins, Kane, Ejim, or Staten wouldn't surprise me. Anyone one else could be considered a "snub" (yes that includes Embiid)

I don't think Embiid is really even in the conversation. He doesn't play enough minutes to rack up big enough numbers when he does play and will have missed three conference games. I'd even give DPOY to Wiggins over Embiid with the time he's missed.

 

[VeloClone]

Why would you say he has "no business" doing such things? He's an excellent player and excellent players typically have excellent stats. He isn't the first sub 6'8" guy to be a great rebounder/scorer in the Big 12. Damion James was a "listed" 6'7" and was a rebounding monster at Texas. Picking Ejim, Kane or Wiggins doersn't mean that the other ones got snubbed. The only way this is a snub to anyone is if they give it to Smart, who should be disqualified from consideration as part of his suspension for assaulting a fan.

6'6" 3 star really has no business leading the Big 12 in rebounding. Someone who came into college ball as raw as Ejim was really has no business leading the league in scoring before he is done. It isn't an insult to Mel but rather recognition of just how hard he worked.

I understand giving POY to a freshman when he dominates the league but I think if it is essentially a dead heat (at best) between a freshman and an upperclassman who has demonstrated versatility and the ability to maintain the level of play over time, I think it is a snub. I know there are many who will disagree with this statement and I am okay with that.

Also: anyone who votes based on the premise that the POY should go to the best team's best player has snubbed the other candidates by not even considering them. I don't know how many there are of those voters, but I hear that reasoning way too often.

 

[surly]

i wouldn't downplay his academics as being the difference for some thoughtful voters.

 

[twocoach]

i wouldn't downplay his academics as being the difference for some thoughtful voters.

They have a Big 12 All Academic team for that.

 

[Doc]

6'6" 3 star really has no business leading the Big 12 in rebounding. Someone who came into college ball as raw as Ejim was really has no business leading the league in scoring before he is done. It isn't an insult to Mel but rather recognition of just how hard he worked.

I understand giving POY to a freshman when he dominates the league but I think if it is essentially a dead heat (at best) between a freshman and an upperclassman who has demonstrated versatility and the ability to maintain the level of play over time, I think it is a snub. I know there are many who will disagree with this statement and I am okay with that.

Also: anyone who votes based on the premise that the POY should go to the best team's best player has snubbed the other candidates by not even considering them. I don't know how many there are of those voters, but I hear that reasoning way too often.

I think your 2nd paragraph is a great point, and changes my thinking on this a little

 

[twocoach]

6'6" 3 star really has no business leading the Big 12 in rebounding. Someone who came into college ball as raw as Ejim was really has no business leading the league in scoring before he is done. It isn't an insult to Mel but rather recognition of just how hard he worked.I understand giving POY to a freshman when he dominates the league but I think if it is essentially a dead heat (at best) between a freshman and an upperclassman who has demonstrated versatility and the ability to maintain the level of play over time, I think it is a snub. I know there are many who will disagree with this statement and I am okay with that.Also: anyone who votes based on the premise that the POY should go to the best team's best player has snubbed the other candidates by not even considering them. I don't know how many there are of those voters, but I hear that reasoning way too often.

Everything you listed are great reasons to consider hanging Ejim's number in the rafters, but has no bearing on a POY voting. I'ts even less reasonable to take into consideration "overcoming" being a 3 star recruit FOUR YEARS AGO than it is to take into consideration being the best player on the team that won the best conference in the sport by multiple games THIS YEAR. This award is for play this year, period. Offense, defense, total impact to team and to league. That's it. It doesn't matter what Ejim before this year and it won't be considered. Ejim is an excellent player, but I think wehn you take into account both ends of the floor I give the slight nod to Wiggins.

 

[VeloClone]

Everything you listed are great reasons to consider hanging Ejim's number in the rafters, but has no bearing on a POY voting. I'ts even less reasonable to take into consideration "overcoming" being a 3 star recruit FOUR YEARS AGO than it is to take into consideration being the best player on the team that won the best conference in the sport by multiple games THIS YEAR. This award is for play this year, period. Offense, defense, total impact to team and to league. That's it. It doesn't matter what Ejim before this year and it won't be considered. Ejim is an excellent player, but I think wehn you take into account both ends of the floor I give the slight nod to Wiggins.

Great; glad you disagree. If you think voters (whether coaches or media) won't notice that Ejim led the league in rebounding last year and is leading it in scoring this year and - right or wrong - it won't weigh in their minds we will just have to agree to disagree.

You asked why I said he has no business doing those things and I answered - it's as simple as that. Now you are trying to make it something else.

Have a nice weekend.

 

[Agclone91]

Everything you listed are great reasons to consider hanging Ejim's number in the rafters, but has no bearing on a POY voting. I'ts even less reasonable to take into consideration "overcoming" being a 3 star recruit FOUR YEARS AGO than it is to take into consideration being the best player on the team that won the best conference in the sport by multiple games THIS YEAR. This award is for play this year, period. Offense, defense, total impact to team and to league. That's it. It doesn't matter what Ejim before this year and it won't be considered. Ejim is an excellent player, but I think wehn you take into account both ends of the floor I give the slight nod to Wiggins.

Ejim Wiggins
MIN - 31.7 32.0
PPG - 18.4 16.0
REB - 8.6 5.8
AST - 1.8 1.6
FG% - .513 .441
3P% - .333 .343
FT% - .789 .769
BLK - 0.6 0.8
STL - 1.2 1.0
TO - 2.4 2.1

Wiggins doesn't lead Ejim in any category of significance other than Blocks. To give the slight edge to Wiggins is homerism.

 

[kucyclone]

Wiggins has some crazy +/- numbers this season. Courtesy of GroupStats:

KU scores 1.18 points per possession when Wiggins is on the floor, and 1.08 points per possession when he's on the bench.

KU allows 0.99 points per possession when Wiggins is on the floor, and 1.09 points per possession when he's on the bench.

So KU is .19 points per possession better than their opponents when Wiggins is in the game, and .01 points per possession worse than their opponents when he's out.

 

[kucyclone]

After the West Virginia game, Kansas will have played 725 minutes in conference play.

Half of 725 is 363, which is exactly the number of minutes Joel Embiid has played in conference play.

For this reason, he wouldn't be on my First Team, if I had a ballot.

 

[twocoach]

[/I][/B]Wiggins doesn't lead Ejim in any category of significance other than Blocks. To give the slight edge to Wiggins is homerism.

I missed the stats you included on defense, which is what I said gives Wiggins the nod in my opinion.

 

[cmjh10]

No Ellerman talk?

 

[surly]

update on k-state fan poll

Results (total votes = 71):

embiid3 / 4.23%

ejim31 / 43.66%

foster9 / 12.68%

kane11 / 15.49%

wiggins12 / 16.90%

other5 / 7.04%

 

[Agclone91]

Ejim Wiggins
MIN - 31.7 32.0
PPG - 18.4 16.0
REB - 8.6 5.8
AST - 1.8 1.6
FG% - .513 .441
3P% - .333 .343
FT% - .789 .769
BLK - 0.6 0.8
STL - 1.2 1.0
TO - 2.4 2.1

Wiggins doesn't lead Ejim in any category of significance other than Blocks. To give the slight edge to Wiggins is homerism.

I missed the stats you included on defense, which is what I said gives Wiggins the nod in my opinion.

I included the two major defensive stats, Blocks and Steals and I would consider Rebounds to be more of a defensive stat. What other defensive stats would you like?

Wiggins leads Ejim by 0.2 BPG and Ejim leads Wiggins in 0.2 SPG. At most, I would call that a wash.

 

[Max57]

Kane won't win -- too many perceived negatives. (e.g., 5th year transfer)

 

[cyclonespiker33]

I missed the stats you included on defense, which is what I said gives Wiggins the nod in my opinion.

Blocks, steals, and rebounds are defensive stats

 

[twocoach]

Kane won't win -- too many perceived negatives. (e.g., 5th year transfer)

I doubt if anyone cares whether he is a 5th year senior or a transfer, let alone thinks those are negatives.