Twins trade Morneau

[Dryburn]

To Pirates for Alex Presley (OF) and PTBNL or cash.

I kind of hate to see this, but he never was the same after the concussion. Maybe a change of scenery will do him good.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/...-from-minnesota-twins-for-alex-presley-083113

Just what the Twins need though....another outfielder!

 

[bawbie]

It's a one month rental, he's a free agent after this year.

 

[Dryburn]

It's a one month rental, he's a free agent after this year.

Yeah, and there was some talk about the Twins trying to bring him back even after a trade. We'll see.

 

[dabears32]

Morneau's free agency will be very interesting. I just don't see how a gm can give him the large contract he will undoubtedly want, given his concussion history.

The Twins farm system is stacked so it will be interesting to see what they do in the off season

 

[FDWxMan]

To Pirates for Alex Presley (OF) and PTBNL or cash.

I kind of hate to see this, but he never was the same after the concussion. Maybe a change of scenery will do him good.

Pirates acquire Morneau from Twins for OF Alex Presley - MLB News | FOX Sports on MSN

Just what the Twins need though....another outfielder!

Absolutely disgusting. I think I might need to take a break from the Twins BS for a while.

 

[ianoconnor]

Pirates are going hard. Dang.

 

[Iastfan112]

Absolutely disgusting. I think I might need to take a break from the Twins BS for a while.

1. Gives Morneau a chance at a ring
2. Prevents 10-5 issues that would arise if the Twins were to resign him this fall.
3. They had to let him go to free agency anyways due the collective bargining argeement only allowing 20% reduction in contract value.
4. He's just not very good anymore. He's 32 with a significant injury history with a sub par hitting history over the last 3 years.

If the PTBNL is intriguing I like this trade(something like Sulbaran in the Butera trade). If not I'm utterly apathetic on it.

 

[FDWxMan]

4. He's just not very good anymore. He's 32 with a significant injury history with a sub par hitting history over the last 3 years.

Everyone keeps harping on this. Big friggin deal. I'll wager whatever you want that the Twins 2014 replacement 1B won't outperform his stat line.

As for the budget stuff. Boo frickin hoo. Give me one reason the fans should feel bad about the salary of an $80M payroll in a new stadium.

Do you have a link on the 20% reduction stuff? I was pretty sure that only applied to arbitration stuff. Never heard or read anything about that re: FAs.

 

[Iastfan112]

Everyone keeps harping on this. Big friggin deal. I'll wager whatever you want that the Twins 2014 replacement 1B won't outperform his stat line.

As for the budget stuff. Boo frickin hoo. Give me one reason the fans should feel bad about the salary of an $80M payroll in a new stadium.

Do you have a link on the 20% reduction stuff? I was pretty sure that only applied to arbitration stuff.

They may not but guys like Parmelee and Hermann(hell Colabello as well) should get regular playing time to see if they are going to be part of the next good Twins team.

 

[FDWxMan]

They may not but guys like Parmelee and Hermann(hell Colabello as well) should get regular playing time to see if they are going to be part of the next good Twins team.

Hermann, while he may be useful, does not even remotely profile as even an avg regular at 1B or DH. His future is elsewhere.

There's been plenty of room (this season and last) in the OF or DH or even 1B WITH Morneau to get Parmelee time. He keeps failing at it, and the mgmt keeps sending him down or leaving him on the bench.

One more month of Morneau, with essentially no reason to come out to the park, wouldn't have killed anyone's development or bottom line.

 

[Dryburn]

Absolutely disgusting. I think I might need to take a break from the Twins BS for a while.

Yeah. Trades are all right, if you get something in return, but most of the Twins trades lately have been on the low side. I hated when they traded BOTH Revere and Span. Plus all the others they have traded or let walk lately. Most are doing well now......Hunter, Cuddy, Kubel, Liriano, Garza, Gomez, Hardy, Crain, Nathan, etc. They don't seem to get much back in return.

Plus, I don't get why they keep Gardy and Anderson. Gardy has never really done anything, especially in playoffs, plus he always seems to have problems with young players (Garza, Gomez, Casilla to name a few) and when was the last time Anderson developed or improved any pitcher?

 

[FDWxMan]

Yeah. Trades are all right, if you get something in return, but most of the Twins trades lately have been on the low side. I hated when they traded BOTH Revere and Span. Plus all the others they have traded or let walk lately. Most are doing well now......Hunter, Cuddy, Kubel, Liriano, Garza, Gomez, Hardy, Crain, Nathan, etc. They don't seem to get much back in return.

Plus, I don't get why they keep Gardy and Anderson. Gardy has never really done anything, especially in playoffs, plus he always seems to have problems with young players (Garza, Gomez, Casilla to name a few) and when was the last time Anderson developed or improved any pitcher?

I would have been ok with it if I thought it was actually going to advance the franchise....but this was a straight up dump.

After the whole time hearing the "Twins asking price for Morneau is too high" then suddenly, at the 11th hour of the final day for trades (postseason eligible) they dump him?

For a AAAA outfielder? Mastroianni? Clete Thomas? Wilkin Ramirez? Chris Parmelee? They don't have enough of those already?

Look. I get it. Presley is just a place holder until the Hicks/Buxton/Arcia + Herrmann et al outfield is ready. But THAT's my problem.

They could have gone out an signed a mediocre place-holder outfielder in the offseason, rather than the PR thumb your nose at the fanbase by trading Morneau for a non prospect move.

 

[fccy]

I like it. Of course, my grandparents lived about an hour outside of Pittsburgh.

 

[jdoggivjc]

Yeah. Trades are all right, if you get something in return, but most of the Twins trades lately have been on the low side. I hated when they traded BOTH Revere and Span. Plus all the others they have traded or let walk lately. Most are doing well now......Hunter, Cuddy, Kubel, Liriano, Garza, Gomez, Hardy, Crain, Nathan, etc. They don't seem to get much back in return.

Plus, I don't get why they keep Gardy and Anderson. Gardy has never really done anything, especially in playoffs, plus he always seems to have problems with young players (Garza, Gomez, Casilla to name a few) and when was the last time Anderson developed or improved any pitcher?

I don't think you can say ALL these guys are playing well.

Hunter is having a monster season for the Tigers, but he's pretty much in the last 2-3 years of his career, and trying to get the elusive ring. No way he was getting that in Minnesota this year. Plus he's been gone for awhile now - let it go.

Cuddyer had 1-2 great years in Colorado, but he's starting to hit his downside.

Kubel is doing well? This week Arizona optioned him to AAA only to be "rescued" by the Indians off waivers. I wouldn't say he's doing that "well" this year.

Liriano's career was dead when the Twins let him go. They actually went much longer with that experiment than most teams would have. This is his first year "back". You can't fault Twins management for letting him go - there were no indications he was ever going to be a decent pitcher again.

Hardy might be doing well, but you include him like he was some indispensable piece - which he's not. He's a good role player for the Orioles.

Funny that you include Crain in this list - most of the time Crain took the mound with the Twins most Twins fans ******* and moaned that he was taking the mound.

But here's the bottom line - this is the price the Twins are paying for giving Joe Mauer that monster contract - the one they "had" to give him. With him getting all that coin they now can't afford to keep talent around him. So there you go - Twins fans got Mauer locked up for the majority of the remainder of his career - they just may not win much the rest of his career.

 

[FDWxMan]

But here's the bottom line - this is the price the Twins are paying for giving Joe Mauer that monster contract - the one they "had" to give him. With him getting all that coin they now can't afford to keep talent around him. So there you go - Twins fans got Mauer locked up for the majority of the remainder of his career - they just may not win much the rest of his career.

Baloney. It's got nothing to do with that. The people that use that crutch don't have a clue. Name one guy the Twins "couldn't keep" because of that deal. You just spelled it out yourself why most of those guys weren't brought back.

Bill Smith mismanaged a lot of things, but the Mauer deal isn't one. 2010 their payroll was $35M or so higher than it was now.

If Morneau doesn't get concussed, who knows how that ends up. Morneau being all screwed up, Mauer being hurt, threw the franchise into the 11-12 decline. Add poor SP scouting/philosophy and bad F/O management and it just accelerated the debacle.

MN returned almost the entire 2010 roster in 11 and it went to crap, but not remotely related to budge. It wasn't like they had a firesale.

Unless you're seriously going to tell me things like the Wilson Ramos deal were because they couldn't afford a rookie with Mauer's contract....

 

[Dryburn]

I don't think you can say ALL these guys are playing well.

Hunter is having a monster season for the Tigers, but he's pretty much in the last 2-3 years of his career, and trying to get the elusive ring. No way he was getting that in Minnesota this year. Plus he's been gone for awhile now - let it go.

Cuddyer had 1-2 great years in Colorado, but he's starting to hit his downside.

Kubel is doing well? This week Arizona optioned him to AAA only to be "rescued" by the Indians off waivers. I wouldn't say he's doing that "well" this year.

Liriano's career was dead when the Twins let him go. They actually went much longer with that experiment than most teams would have. This is his first year "back". You can't fault Twins management for letting him go - there were no indications he was ever going to be a decent pitcher again.

Hardy might be doing well, but you include him like he was some indispensable piece - which he's not. He's a good role player for the Orioles.

Funny that you include Crain in this list - most of the time Crain took the mound with the Twins most Twins fans ******* and moaned that he was taking the mound.

But here's the bottom line - this is the price the Twins are paying for giving Joe Mauer that monster contract - the one they "had" to give him. With him getting all that coin they now can't afford to keep talent around him. So there you go - Twins fans got Mauer locked up for the majority of the remainder of his career - they just may not win much the rest of his career.

I never said they were all doing well, I said most. Hunter never had a really bad year after he was let go. Span was down this year, but Revere was doing well until he got injured. Cuddy had a very good year for the Rockies. Yes, Kubel was down, but the Twins really had no one to replace him with when they let him go. Liriano's best years are probably still ahead of him, and this is his best year. You say he was at the end when the Twins traded him? That was near the end of last year! Hardy is a role player? He has played in 131 games for the Orioles, and is their only true shortstop, a position the Twins have not been able to adequately fill in years. Then there is Gomez, who knew he had power? We certainly never saw that on the Twins, but then he was always in Gardy's doghouse, and was criticized for his approach at the plate. Get in Gardy's doghouse, and you get demoted or get traded. In my view, it is time for him to go.

Gardy seems to have a problem with young, rookie players, especially Latinos. Despite this, he's not even smart enough to hire a Latino coach to work with these players when they make it to the big leagues. The Twin's farm system is loaded, but guess what.....some of the top stars are Latino players...Sano, Rosario, Pinto.....they will be ready for the big league team next year or the year after. If Gardy is still here.....they will end up not performing well for him, get traded, then become stars somewhere else.

As far as the Mauer contract goes.....the Twins had to keep him. There would have been a revolt in the fan base if they had not signed him.....no matter the cost. He is not hurting them at all, as far as the talent around him. The Twins had a payroll of 113 million in 2011. Now, with this dump....the total salary is below 75 million, so it has nothing to do with Mauer. They started cutting salary not long after Target Field opened, despite having more money coming in.

 

[FDWxMan]

Cuddy had a very good year for the Rockies. Yes, Kubel was down, but the Twins really had no one to replace him with when they let him go.

Cuddy for Willingham was at worst a wash, and likely a win for the Twins. Arcia is essentially Kubel with a higher ceiling.

Liriano's best years are probably still ahead of him, and this is his best year. You say he was at the end when the Twins traded him? That was near the end of last year!

We'll see. He's in the now NL for starters, weaker lineups and hitters unfamiliar with him. Can he repeat this next year? Will his elbow hold up now that he's throwing his slider all the time again?



Hardy definitely should have been kept, but Gardy didn't like him, and the Gardy Scholarship program was still in full effect at that point, so Smith went along with it.

Gomez could have been given more time, everyone knew he would eventually develop power, but its another great example of the Twins trading at an absolute low, and a 23-year old at that!

I agree with moving Gardy out. It's time, get some fresh blood in for the new wave that will be arriving starting in Mid-May next year.

 

[Dryburn]

Cuddy for Willingham was at worst a wash, and likely a win for the Twins. Arcia is essentially Kubel with a higher ceiling.


We'll see. He's in the now NL for starters, weaker lineups and hitters unfamiliar with him. Can he repeat this next year? Will his elbow hold up now that he's throwing his slider all the time again?



Hardy definitely should have been kept, but Gardy didn't like him, and the Gardy Scholarship program was still in full effect at that point, so Smith went along with it.

Gomez could have been given more time, everyone knew he would eventually develop power, but its another great example of the Twins trading at an absolute low, and a 23-year old at that!

I agree with moving Gardy out. It's time, get some fresh blood in for the new wave that will be arriving starting in Mid-May next year.

Yes. I do not want to watch as Gardy ruins Sano, Buxton, Pinto, Rosario, etc. He's had his chance and has done nothing. Plus, Anderson needs to go too. I can't think of a single pitcher he has helped, or developed over the years. None.

 

[FDWxMan]

Yes. I do not want to watch as Gardy ruins Sano, Buxton, Pinto, Rosario, etc. He's had his chance and has done nothing. Plus, Anderson needs to go too. I can't think of a single pitcher he has helped, or developed over the years. None.

The thing is, I don't know that changing the field staff would do much.

I wouldn't classify myself as a Terry Ryan hater, I'm more indifferent at this point, but the whole front office staff just seems so antiquated in how they evaluate players and the statistical strategy they employ seems like they give everyone else a head start.

Need some new blood, or a least new voices to get in Ryan's ear.

 

[Dryburn]

The thing is, I don't know that changing the field staff would do much.

I wouldn't classify myself as a Terry Ryan hater, I'm more indifferent at this point, but the whole front office staff just seems so antiquated in how they evaluate players and the statistical strategy they employ seems like they give everyone else a head start.

Need some new blood, or a least new voices to get in Ryan's ear.

Well, Ryan helped MacPhail build the Twins of 1987-1991, and then suffered through some really bad years as GM before finally succeeding starting in 2001. Yet, he still never achieved the level of success that MacPhail had. Now, I'm not sure that they have the same scouting network in place that they had back then, including when Ryan was the Director of scouting. He is a lot better as GM than Smith, and his evaluation of talent is much better, but I'm not sure he is capable of building a team again, or if the team can afford to give him the time he needs.

"The Twins Way" was 1) solid hitting, although not always for power, which they do not have now 2) strong defense......always seeming to be in the right place, throwing to the right base, making the right play which seems to elude them now 3) controlled pitching with very few walks....not the case any more and 4) pitching to contact...now the trend in MLB seems to be back to power, strike-out pitchers which the Twins seem to lack.