*****The Super, Mega, Huge Big 12 Expansion Thread*****
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Pro FSU staying in the ACC folks hang their hat on three things:
1.) ACC will rise again in FB and will not be left out of the playoff moving forward
2.) Geographic rivals are in ACC and academic climate is much better
3.) There is still nothing proven with respect to Big 12 financial benefit compared to the ACC. Until this is shown and documented by real sources then there is no reason to consider a move
Someone stated a few days ago that if ND joined the ACC, that ESPN would be willing to rework the TV contract they just agreed upon. Probably close enough to Big XII estimates that there wouldn't be much sense in leaving at that point. Plus, they'd still be a big fish in a small pond as far as football is concerned, even if that pond got a little bigger due to adding ND.
I didn't know this. I guess I thought that the B12 TV deal was better than the ACC deal? Also, I thought that a move to the B12 would allow FSU to get more for their 2nd & 3rd tier rights? I must be misunderstanding the financial argument.
Final details of the new Tier 1 is still speculative. Contract hasn't been signed. Also, nothing concrete on Tier 3 value for FSU (at least that has been released). The result is estimates and speculation that cannot be proven, but is highly likely a close estimate. It leaves rooms for doubters to say where is the proof though.
My replies-
1- Miami & UNC are about to get NCAA penalties. Good luck with that. Duke isn't interested and 3/4 of the Syracuse, UVA, Maryland, Wake Forest, and BC group is bad in a given year. NC State is average at best. VT, Clemson, GT & FSU will have to carry 10 schools. Good luck with that. They may not be officially shut out of potentially qualifying but they will face an uphill climb and miss out on money attached to qualifying they may get in another league.
2- Such crap. Their zipper divisions make it a moot point.
FSU & Clemson have 1 cross division rival that is close (Miami/GT)
They have Wake they don't care about
They have NC State
Every other team they play in their 7 fixed ACC opponents is north of DC- just like WVU. Syracuse & BC are just as distant and with as little history as any of our teams and both play them every year.
Such crap from people who haven't looked at it.
Side by side (assuming the either the old division setup for comparison)
Maryland vs WVU
Wake vs KU
NC State vs KSU
Cuse vs ISU
1 of UNC, VT, or the other one's cross rival vs either UT or OU
BC vs BU or TCU cross division
1 of UVA/Duke/Pitt vs either TT or OSU
Cross rival vs open date vs non-con foe that might even be that same team
It really isn't some huge regional win to stay. Its a slight advantage but not some tight knit area like the SEC west or anything.
Yeah. The only point I would raise is that 20 million was pointed out by the Sports Business Journal which never gets it wrong. That is a minimum and only a fool believes that a league already projected to make that, that has open market leverage in a year or two, and adds two schools of the FSU & Clemson caliber would not make significantly more.
If you were giving any credibility to what was posted on that WVU board, it should have ended a few weeks ago when an "insider" purported that ISU was going to be in a division with TCU, BU, WVU, CU, and FSU, and BU was the only one opposing that alignment...
Fans finally getting rid of dreaded BCS | The Journal Gazette
So basically the B12 champ will bring a $50-100M back from the pne or two games. So who gets this money? Obviously having 4 teams is much better $$$$ than just 2 SEC teams like this year. Also, under the new format, they could have 2 SEC teams and one B12 and one Big Ten thus freezing out the Pac 12...
So basically the B12 champ will bring a $50-100M back from the pne or two games. So who gets this money? Obviously having 4 teams is much better $$$$ than just 2 SEC teams like this year. Also, under the new format, they could have 2 SEC teams and one B12 and one Big Ten thus freezing out the Pac 12...
A lot of the troubles with pinning down the financial difference lies with the ACC. They won't release the contract details (even to the member schools) to avoid that being public knowledge. Once the public schools get a copy, then open record laws will allow everyone to see it. So to prevent that, the ACC just says "trust us". This is also why when this all started the FSU president was misinformed about the ACC tier 3 rights. Their insistence on contract privacy creates a lot of confusion and suspicion.
It was fun over there for a bit but it is just completely out of control now. They have about 5 guys saying this and that, all completly made up. And they actually think what these guys say is meaningful and is what is actually happening. Now they think Texas mesed up getting FSU. Their main guy is called The Dude of West Virginia, and he is literally making stuff up at this point. Nobody has any idea, the whole Clemson/FSU rumor came from them, and in reality, there is zero proof there were ever serious discussions. I mean think about it, how many guys from WV would have a great source for a conference they aren't even offically in for another week. Maybe their AD is being used as in intermediary or something, but even then, does anyone think he is really talking that much? So stupid.
If the ACC doesn't add ND in some fashion, a good estimate of the annual difference between the ACC's recently renegotiated deal and a B12 deal with FSU and Clemson is $10M/yr per school.
Don't know how that classifies as a **** up - things can go 100% right for the Big 12 and nothing will officially happen until 2013 at the earliest.
I don't see how the B12 has effed up. Both Clemson and FSU are going to wait on doing anything until the ACC has exhausted all options to increase their payouts. And all of those options include ND in some fashion. I don't blame FSU and Clemson for waiting. The B12 hasn't effed up anything yet.
What i meant is, nothing will be happening for 2013 season, earliest would be 2014.
6m The Dude of WV @theDudeofWV
There is hope ND will announce a renewal of their contract with NBC before the 8/15 deadline. If that happens Luck and company will move.
9m The Dude of WV @theDudeofWV
I've done the best I can folks. I've been way over my head but it's not from lack of effort.
11m The Dude of WV @theDudeofWV
Some factions in the B12 were opposed to expansion and the problems it gave with divisions.
12m The Dude of WV @theDudeofWV
ND shouldn't be blameless. Bowlsby is too smart to think ND would join without some assurance from ND. ND may just be an excuse.
21m The Dude of WV @theDudeofWV
The B12 may have just passed on their only chance to add two premier college football programs. FSU is willing to come in 2014. Unlikely.
23m The Dude of WV @theDudeofWV
@Ringneck85 it's not FSU's or Clemeson's fault. They have been ready for a month.
38m The Dude of WV @theDudeofWV
Again. Before you go on a Texas witch hunt ask your school how they could sit on there hands.
40m The Dude of WV @theDudeofWV
FSU was the pick at 11. Bowlsby and Dodds wanted ND at 12.
41m The Dude of WV @theDudeofWV
There is still a small window if ND declares their independence quickly and Bowlsby moved on.
48m The Dude of WV @theDudeofWV
Every day the B12 tarries gives Swofford the chance to solidify support at FSU & CU.
50m The Dude of WV @theDudeofWV
I've been trying to find out why invitations have not been sent out and time and time again the answer is ND.
51m The Dude of WV @theDudeofWV
FSU, Clemson and a few others in the ACC are ready to jump but for some reason the B12 waits on ND.
54m The Dude of WV @theDudeofWV
I was all set to blame Texas but the truth is all 10 members are at fault.
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