*****The Super, Mega, Huge Big 12 Expansion Thread*****

[HFCS]

Didnt someone run the numbers on FSU's distances and find them not all that farther in the big 12 than the ACC? Its not like theyre playing all their games close to home anyhow, theyve got one or two busable games and then after that theyre flying.

It wasn't in the megathread but someone here did add it up...without including their second furthest trip to Boston...and it wasn't much different, especially if you carry over 1 or 3 of Clemson/GT/Miami.

Somehow the ACC divisions actually make it worse rather than easier. 3 of the 4 furthest possible schools are in their division. They're playing in upstate New York, Boston and Maryland every other year now in football. The current ACC divisions are comparable to ISU having 3 Texas schools in our division but not one of the KU schools, it's not incredibly geographic.

 

[vmbplayer]

Didnt someone run the numbers on FSU's distances and find them not all that farther in the big 12 than the ACC? Its not like theyre playing all their games close to home anyhow, theyve got one or two busable games and then after that theyre flying.

Just ran them, this is wrong. The average distance for FSU to the ACC currently is 618 miles. The Big 12 is 982 miles.

If Clemson were to come with them the new numbers would be B12-928 and ACC - 641

FSU to ACC
BC - 1304
Duke - 643
GT - 272
Mary- 715
Miami - 406
UNC - 488
NC State - 617
VA 728
Wake - 608
Clemson- 388
average 618

Big 12
ISU - 1227
KSU- 1106
Kansas- 1013
OSU- 1004
Okie- 1007
TCU- 870
Texas- 870
TT- 1051
Baylor- 840
WVA 834
average 982

 

[snowcraig2.0]

Just ran them, this is wrong. The average distance for FSU to the ACC currently is 618 miles. The Big 12 is 982 miles.

If Clemson were to come with them the new numbers would be B12-928 and ACC - 641

FSU to ACC
BC - 1304
Duke - 643
GT - 272
Mary- 715
Miami - 406
UNC - 488
NC State - 617
VA 728
Wake - 608
Clemson- 388
average 618

Big 12
ISU - 1227
KSU- 1106
Kansas- 1013
OSU- 1004
Okie- 1007
TCU- 870
Texas- 870
TT- 1051
Baylor- 840
WVA 834
average 982

This statistic is irrelevant, as division / pod structure would affect their actual distance traveled. Also, it is interesting that their furthest trip in the ACC is longer than the furthest trip in the Big 12 would be.

 

[HFCS]

Just ran them, this is wrong. The average distance for FSU to the ACC currently is 618 miles. The Big 12 is 982 miles.

If Clemson were to come with them the new numbers would be B12-928 and ACC - 641

FSU to ACC
BC - 1304
Duke - 643
GT - 272
Mary- 715
Miami - 406
UNC - 488
NC State - 617
VA 728
Wake - 608
Clemson- 388
average 618

Big 12
ISU - 1227
KSU- 1106
Kansas- 1013
OSU- 1004
Okie- 1007
TCU- 870
Texas- 870
TT- 1051
Baylor- 840
WVA 834
average 982

These numbers are off. ACC just added two schools that are furthest away from Florida State and one of them is in FSU's division.

Pitt and Syracuse are about as far or further away than any Big 12 teams. Add those in and the average is suddenly not very different. If GT or Miami comes along with Clemson it'd be a wash.

 

[Clonehomer]

Didnt someone run the numbers on FSU's distances and find them not all that farther in the big 12 than the ACC? Its not like theyre playing all their games close to home anyhow, theyve got one or two busable games and then after that theyre flying.

It wasn't in the megathread but someone here did add it up...without including their second furthest trip to Boston...and it wasn't much different, especially if you carry over 1 or 3 of Clemson/GT/Miami.Somehow the ACC divisions actually make it worse rather than easier. 3 of the 4 furthest possible schools are in their division. They're playing in upstate New York, Boston and Maryland every other year now in football. The current ACC divisions are comparable to ISU having 3 Texas schools in our division but not one of the KU schools, it's not incredibly geographic.

So its like Mizzourah in the SEC East?

 

[jbhtexas]

B12 covers travel costs for all schools before the money is divided up and split evenly. It's a non issue.

Do you have a link for this? Unless I missed it, there is nothing discussed about travel costs in the current Big 12 conference handbook, except for football bowl games and conference meetings.

 

[boone7247]

Just ran them, this is wrong. The average distance for FSU to the ACC currently is 618 miles. The Big 12 is 982 miles.

If Clemson were to come with them the new numbers would be B12-928 and ACC - 641

FSU to ACC
BC - 1304
Duke - 643
GT - 272
Mary- 715
Miami - 406
UNC - 488
NC State - 617
VA 728
Wake - 608
Clemson- 388
Pitt - 906
Cuse - 1183
VT - 631
average 618 revised avg 684

Big 12
ISU - 1227
KSU- 1106
Kansas- 1013
OSU- 1004
Okie- 1007
TCU- 870
Texas- 870
TT- 1051
Baylor- 840
WVA 834
Clemson - 388
average 982 Revised 928

FIFY

So that is 244 miles of additional travel on avg. Lets say all told the teams fly 70 times to XII destinations. That is 17,080 additional travel miles. 2.9M / 17,080 miles = $169.79 per mile extra. I find it hard to believe, that to fly one extra mile costs you 169.79. Call me out if I am crazy.

 

[BloodyBuddy]

I believe FSU doesn't want to come, but if 7 ACC teams are sniffing around the Big 12, they would be foolish to sit back and be reactionary. Although it is a small chance they would be left behind in any scenario.

We need to try and pick off Clemson. If they come it will create a stir.

Much like Nebraska and Colorado leaving the Big 12.

 

[snowcraig2.0]

RT @DanBeebe: I remember when I took what DeLoss said at face value too

 

[Wesley]

This statistic is irrelevant, as division / pod structure would affect their actual distance traveled. Also, it is interesting that their furthest trip in the ACC is longer than the furthest trip in the Big 12 would be.

Yep. if you have to get on a plane, 600 or 900 miles does not matter.

 

[bosco]

ACC contract maybe 2.9 million less but that doesn't inlcude the T3 monies that FSU can garner. I think I read somewhere that FSU's T3 could be worth 6-8 million. So in the B12 FSU could be making 9-11 million more per year than in the ACC.

A million here and a million there and pretty soon we are talking about real money.

 

[HFCS]

ACC contract maybe 2.9 million less but that doesn't inlcude the T3 monies that FSU can garner. I think I read somewhere that FSU's T3 could be worth 6-8 million. So in the B12 FSU could be making 9-11 million more per year than in the ACC.

And that's where the fan base and the program specific media types (like our own CW) fit in. It doesn't matter what major media or school brass report, legit $ differences like that will be super public just among fans, boosters and FSU focused media. Imagine if ISU had a chance to make 30% more TV revenue by switching to a conference happy to invite us. I think CF.com would quickly become all about that and I know the fans wouldn't be gravitating toward the less money option.

Clemson fans have been going nuts about Big 12 jump for weeks. FSU fans are more and more on board with it every day. Somebody linked a warchant.com poll with a few 100 answers where a large majority of FSU fans said they thought they were Big 12 bound vs. ACC or SEC. It was something like 70%. That's the same critical mass we saw with Mizzou and A&M, there may be no going back if there's really more money and playoff possibilities in the Big 12 for them.

 

[Cyclophile1]

ACC contract maybe 2.9 million less but that doesn't inlcude the T3 monies that FSU can garner. I think I read somewhere that FSU's T3 could be worth 6-8 million. So in the B12 FSU could be making 9-11 million more per year than in the ACC.

A million here and a million there and pretty soon we are talking about real money.

Add in the fact that the new TV deal supposedly has a built-in escalator of $2million per team when expansion occurs and it gets crazy from there. Conference Championship game thought be about $2million per team and Plus-one playoff money should be $3-$4 million per team for a nonparticipating program and possibly double that for the participating team.

They particularly won't be able to resist this when the new SEC deal comes in at $30 million a team next year. Their Trustees are going to sit there and say "We're making less than half of Vanderbilt and Northwestern.... Get me Commissioner Bowlsby on the phone."

 

[bosco]

And that's where the fan base and the program specific media types (like our own CW) fit in. It doesn't matter what major media or school brass report, legit $ differences like that will be super public just among fans, boosters and FSU focused media. Imagine if ISU had a chance to make 30% more TV revenue by switching to a conference happy to invite us. I think CF.com would quickly become all about that and I know the fans wouldn't be gravitating toward the less money option.

Clemson fans have been going nuts about Big 12 jump for weeks. FSU fans are more and more on board with it every day. Somebody linked a warchant.com poll with a few 100 answers where a large majority of FSU fans said they thought they were Big 12 bound vs. ACC or SEC. It was something like 70%. That's the same critical mass we saw with Mizzou and A&M, there may be no going back if there's really more money and playoff possibilities in the Big 12 for them.

I wonder if the talk by the President is all posturing then. I'm sure FSU knows exactly what they potentially can make in the B12 and this talk about being "firmly entrenched" in the ACC is to just show a good front meanwhile they are hoping they can get enough support from the alumni to make the jump.

 

[HFCS]

Add in the fact that the new TV deal supposedly has a built-in escalator of $2million per team when expansion occurs and it gets crazy from there. Conference Championship game thought be about $2million per team and Plus-one playoff money should be $3-$4 million per team for a nonparticipating program and possibly double that for the participating team.

They particularly won't be able to resist this when the new SEC deal comes in at $30 million a team next year. Their Trustees are going to sit there and say "We're making less than half of Vanderbilt and Northwestern.... Get me Commissioner Bowlsby on the phone."

They have an old style rotary phone under a glass dome that goes directly to Bowlsby. Batphone style.

 

[megamanxzero35]

http://i.imgur.com/96cut.jpg

I would enjoy.

 

[HFCS]

http://i.imgur.com/96cut.jpg

I would enjoy.

I'm down with that even from a selfish ISU standpoint if there's some way we can get a little scheduling consideration toward KU/KSU.

Change the conference name to The Big SEC Strangler.

There are 4 ACC schools basically north of that general footprint, 6 if they add UConn/Rutgers.

It's hard to see that much expansion without the SEC trying for VT though, unless one gets VT and the other gets UVA/Maryland.

 

[AlumfromAmes]

1. ACC IS basketball oriented. Without question!
2. FSU, GTech, VTech, Clemson, Miami are football oriented.
3. ACC, if it stays basketball oriented, becomes prey to conference expansion, because expansion/realignment is all about football money. Florida State's biggest concern is U of Florida and Florida is getting much bigger dollars and prestige in the SEC.
4. The Big XII has, obviously, made a decision to be a predator. This is the reaction we have all wanted after the last two years of feeling like the prey.
5. SEC does not want any of the ACC teams above, with the exception of VTech. They already have teams in those states (TV markets) and current SEC teams do not want in-state competition.
6. Notre Dame's first choice for a conference is ACC. Even though Big Ten fans think Notre Dame would naturally go to their conference, it's only because of geography. Notre Dame's biggest alumni bases are California, New York, and... FLORIDA. ND is not really the midwestern school that many believe it to be. They might easily choose the Big XII over the Big Ten, especially if the Big XII rivals the SEC in overall football quality.
7. If you're the Big XII and you're looking for the best quality football programs with major media markets interested in college football, what would be better than Florida, South Carolina, and Georgia?

To summarize, for the Big XII, it would be a very smart move to look at de-stabilizing the ACC, thereby eliminating that conference from the BCS discussion. You'd also remove Notre Dame's preferred landing spot. You'd get yourself into primo territory for increasing your media contracts and capture them before another conference (other than SEC) does. For the ACC football schools, they'd be a part of the only conference that could eventually rival the SEC. In short, it makes so much sense that I can't believe we didn't see it coming.

 

[Wesley]

Do it, Bowlsby, do it. After watching the live drama last year, this would be interesting to view BE/ACC sniping from afar. The idea that bball reigns will be their undoing.

 

[boone7247]

http://i.imgur.com/96cut.jpg

I would enjoy.

Here is the problem I have with this. Note this is for football only. For recruiting purposes I think you have to break up the texas and southern schools. Otherwise, the northern schools are going to struggle for talent. If you break them up so that every team is playing in Texas and near Florida every year, that would mean a lot for all the more northern schools. Also this would serve to breakup the us versus them like we had in the old B12. I know people will argue geography, but for football it doesn't really matter. I think the conference would really benefit from attempting to not be Texas centered. Just my $0.02.