MESS named OC

[CycloneVet]

A couple of things Im not that excited about this hire, but Im willing to give it a chance. I was excited about Gene Chiziks, McDermotts, and Tom Herman's hire. I wasnt excited about Paul Rhoads. See what excitement has gotten me?

Another thing, can we please get a TE, I dont care if its an oversized WR either, just someone to catch passes over the middle and to beat the LB and be a safety valve. Franklin was a stud and I want someone like him, thanks.

 

[synapticwave]

In a 12 team conference, Rank 1-6 is above average (top half of conference). Rank 7-12 are below average (bottom half of conference).

30.00 > 29.43; 30.69 > 30.11

Pinkel was above average in year 2.

And below average in year 4

 

[Ficklone02]

A couple of things Im not that excited about this hire, but Im willing to give it a chance. I was excited about Gene Chiziks, McDermotts, and Tom Herman's hire. I wasnt excited about Paul Rhoads. See what excitement has gotten me?

Another thing, can we please get a TE, I dont care if its an oversized WR either, just someone to catch passes over the middle and to beat the LB and be a safety valve. Franklin was a stud and I want someone like him, thanks.

Personally I'm not a fan of TE's in an offense like ours. I'd rather have a slot receiver or an extra back in the backfield than TE's. I think you get a better matchup on a LB in coverage with a slot/extra back.

 

[swarthmoreCY]

Personally I'm not a fan of TE's in an offense like ours. I'd rather have a slot receiver or an extra back in the backfield than TE's. I think you get a better matchup on a LB in coverage with a slot/extra back.

A TE can be a great weapon when properly used. Under Herman, more often then not, we used the TE as a too small OLineman and/or a too slow receiver. The area where a TE typically excels is often already occupied by our WRs (and thus over-crowded with defenders).

 

[jbhtexas]

And below average in year 4

Do you consider Pinkel's offense successful in year 2 and year 3?

 

[PaulRhoadsFan32]

I really hope CPR knows what he is doing. The brains of the guy that coaches the worst area on offense for the last how many years now controls the whole offense. Best of luck to him, but I raise an eyebrow at this call.

I think we have to trust Rhoads decision here on naming messingham the OC lets not be critical of this call rhoads knows what he is doing lets leave at that and be excited for courtney messingham GO CYLCONES!!!!

 

[RustShack]

However, I really think we need to get away from anything close to resembling the spread Herman wanted to run.

That would be a major mistake that would set us back and cripple what CPR has been able to achieve so far.

 

[im4cyclones]

I love it when people use stats but cherry picking only the parts they like to demonstrate a point. Since you picked PPG vs the conference as your metric for what constitutes "a successful offense" then let's look at Pinkels first 8 years in that context.

      ppg | conf med ppg* | rank
2001:  21.80      28.30      9
2002:  30.00      29.43      6
2003:  30.69      30.11      6
2004:  23.27      26.7      10
2005:  30.75      26.59      4
2006:  29.54      30.08      6
2007:  39.86      34.89      4
2008:  42.21      35.15      4

* conference median used midpoint between 6th and 7th place for the the conference average ppg.

All stats taken from NCAA Statistics

So, by this data, Pinkel's offense doesn't crack the top third of the conference till year 5 and in fact his worst year is year 4. So, using the stat that you picked out: PPG vs the conference average, we can see that Pinkel took 5 years to get his offense above average.

It's called confirmation bias and most of us are susceptible to doing it. Probably even you.

 

[swarthmoreCY]

That would be a major mistake that would set us back and cripple what CPR has been able to achieve so far.

What exactly has ISU achieved on offense? Stability of quality results is a great thing, but do we want our level of output on offense to be stable?

Going with something that was predictably not a good match for ISU has hindered the program (and will going forward). That said, having a football coach that will teach football, and not a sports radio producer that will talk about the football he has read, will help.

 

[clonedude]

What exactly has ISU achieved on offense?

Going with something that was predictably not a good match for ISU has hindered the program (and will going forward). That said, having a football coach that will teach football, and not a sports radio producer that will talk about the football he has read, will help.

The offense hasn't achieved much of anything under Herman.

I don't want to see drastic changes, but I sure hope Messingham can add some serious wrinkles to what Herman ran.

I still don't understand why we have to be a 100% shotgun offense? I've seen tons of college football teams that run maybe 80% shotgun and 20% under center with a lot of success.

With that being said, however, it won't matter one bit what offense we run if the QB position can't throw a 10 yd pass. If that doesn't change, we'll still be REALLY bad on offense. We're one dimensional... and Rutgers showed that you can't be one dimensional. If you're no threat to pass the ball, you're done for.

 

[CYLIGHT]

I'm happy with the hire, time will tell, but CPR must see something good in Messingham

Great hire until proven otherwise ...... if it ever is!!!!!!!!:yes:

 

[RustShack]

What exactly has ISU achieved on offense? Stability of quality results is a great thing, but do we want our level of output on offense to be stable?

Going with something that was predictably not a good match for ISU has hindered the program (and will going forward). That said, having a football coach that will teach football, and not a sports radio producer that will talk about the football he has read, will help.

We haven't achieved anything yet because all the players we have recruited for this offense are still freshmen and sophomores. A few of them started getting on the field this year, and we seen some flashes. Some people don't understand theres a difference between the players you want for different schemes.

Yeah we might have been best off the previous few years keeping a similar style offense and playing to their strengths, but in the long run switching to a spread was the best thing we could do if we want to be serious players in the Big12.

 

[CYLIGHT]

Names get misspelled all the time. That's part of life, and it doesn't indicate anything.

If he says roods but makes a good point, I don't care.

I agree, THX Eric ;-)

 

[FootballinTexas]

Mess will do well with the QB's. Back to basics. BTW, I think the team will have open QB tryouts for all of you posters who think you can do what you say our our QB's can't or think its a simple thing to do.

 

[swarthmoreCY]

1.)We haven't achieved anything yet because all the players we have recruited for this offense are still freshmen and sophomores. A few of them started getting on the field this year, and we seen some flashes. Some people don't understand theres a difference between the players you want for different schemes.

2.)but in the long run switching to a spread was the best thing we could do if we want to be serious players in the Big12.

Right on cue.

1.) What exactly is it that makes the players we have recruited for Herman's offense not be able to excel in a different one? Increased ability to make plays in space? Mobile linemen that can pass block and get to the second level?


2.) Completely false. Ignoring it is never wise for a building program to willingly going backwards just to get back to where they were...How is going trying to do what other Big 12 teams do, but with not as good of talent give ISU an advantage in the Big 12?

Herman's offense magnifies our talent deficiencies. Any player will do better in an offense built on deception and schematically causing mismatches.

 

[psychlone99]

On a completely seperate topic, I think TH and CPR had more than a few personality clashes. TH always seemed a bit cocky and headstrong in interviews. In contrast Messingham seems to be one of CPRs favorites on the staff. We'll see if improved chemistry helps the team.

This certainly couldn't hurt. I too always wondered how often Herman and Rhoads didn't see eye-to-eye. As an observer, there seemed to be many times while ISU was struggling on offense that Rhoads would throw on the headset and do a fair amount of barking up to the booth. I always thought Rhoads' headset time directly correlated with how he was feeling about the offensive production at that particular moment.

I think you're right that improved chemistry between the OC and HC could be a factor.

 

[swarthmoreCY]

Mess will do well with the QB's. Back to basics. BTW, I think the team will have open QB tryouts for all of you posters who think you can do what you say our our QB's can't or think its a simple thing to do.

FootbalinTexas, why are you throwing up the white-flag? I figured you would last a bit longer.

Back to the QBs, they will benefit greatly if Mess will shore up the scheme. As inaccurate as our QBs were, Herman's offense did them no favors.

With that being said, however, it won't matter one bit what offense we run if the QB position can't throw a 10 yd pass. If that doesn't change, we'll still be REALLY bad on offense. We're one dimensional... and Rutgers showed that you can't be one dimensional. If you're no threat to pass the ball, you're done for

A bit counterintuitive, but their accuracy should go up if we add some routes beyond 10 yards and not horizontal. Force the defense to defend more of the field.

 

[RustShack]

Right on cue.

1.) What exactly is it that makes the players we have recruited for Herman's offense not be able to excel in a different one? Increased ability to make plays in space? Mobile linemen that can pass block and get to the second level?


2.) Completely false. Ignoring it is never wise for a building program to willingly going backwards just to get back to where they were...How is going trying to do what other Big 12 teams do, but with not as good of talent give ISU an advantage in the Big 12?

Herman's offense magnifies our talent deficiencies. Any player will do better in an offense built on deception and schematically causing mismatches.

You're right, any player can excel in any system

Hermans offense did magnify the talent deficiencies, because like previously said, the players who had the talent and were made for his system were the ones who were redshirting or only freshmen or sophomores. I'm not sure how much you know about football and recruiting, but especially for a school like ISU you need to develop players. We aren't going to land many guys who can start as true freshman, and we weren't going to screw over the players they recruited for their system they want to run by making them learn a system that fit the current players better first.

 

[RustShack]

You act like CPR took over a talented team with high expectations. No, he took over an awful team. He was brought in to make changes for the better and put us in the right direction. He gets a few transition years to make the needed changes. How about you wait to judge his offense until about year five or six when its fully his team with the players recruited for this system instead of a completely different one.

 

[FootballinTexas]

SwarthmoreCy, it's been a long day. Accuracy will increase with getting back to the basics....mechanics. TH was big on increasing arm strength to increase velocity. Velocity comes from mechanics (hips down) not arm strength. Have you seen our QB's. They are all ripped. Too much tight muscle, the need to be more loose. They can get stronger without being so tight.