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yoteforever

Active Member
Dec 24, 2008
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I am a huge sports fan but know very little about wrestling other than Iowa State has always been in the hunt for Big 12 titles and somewhere near the top for NCAA national titles. All of a sudden we can't even compete for a Big 12 title, and looks like we will finish 5th.

Wrestling fans, please explain to a novice like myself what the problem is, and do we have the right people at the helm at ISU?
 
yoteforever said:
I am a huge sports fan but know very little about wrestling other than Iowa State has always been in the hunt for Big 12 titles and somewhere near the top for NCAA national titles. All of a sudden we can't even compete for a Big 12 title, and looks like we will finish 5th.

Wrestling fans, please explain to a novice like myself what the problem is, and do we have the right people at the helm at ISU?
Click to expand...

Basically when a wrestling coach leaves a program, it submarines that team for at least a year. ISU essentially had an empty recruiting class, and a part of one take off(with wrestlers like Dan Taylor this is significant). Jackson had to put together a team with JUCOs and lower tier Iowa kids. His JUCOs were non-factors(Gibson is not eligible, and Hawes got stuck behind Ward because Ward would not make 184, and Hunter was not the answer). His lower weights were not there all year, and it showed. The better wrestlers at most weights were RSFr this year. This team will improve a bunch next year just by these kids getting on the mat. We will lose one stud(Reader) but should have a much better team.
 
brett108 said:
Basically when a wrestling coach leaves a program, it submarines that team for at least a year. ISU essentially had an empty recruiting class, and a part of one take off(with wrestlers like Dan Taylor this is significant). Jackson had to put together a team with JUCOs and lower tier Iowa kids. His JUCOs were non-factors(Gibson is not eligible, and Hawes got stuck behind Ward because Ward would not make 184, and Hunter was not the answer). His lower weights were not there all year, and it showed. The better wrestlers at most weights were RSFr this year. This team will improve a bunch next year just by these kids getting on the mat. We will lose one stud(Reader) but should have a much better team.
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recruiting,recruiting,recruiting!!!!!!!why are we redshirting good wrestlers.harold nichols never did it-why is jackson doing it now???????????????you do not need to redshirt a wrestler-you may do it in football because most footballers need to develop their skills and grow their muscle.... wrestlers-i was one- we had to cut weight ,not gain it....it does not make much sense to me to redshirt a wrestler.they should be wrestling and graduating within 4 years-let them get done in 4 years and let them start their lifes' work!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Except we are performing so poorly, we needed all the help we could get this year and not four years from now. Tired of seeing no bench in wrestling or bball this year.
 
i talked to one of the guys on the team. he said he really liked KJ (actually kind of surprised me, knowing him) and he made it sound like the other guys really did too. He also said KJ was a darn good coach and could get the job done.

but im not a fan of these type of results. we are not good. :skeptical:
 
woodie said:
recruiting,recruiting,recruiting!!!!!!!why are we redshirting good wrestlers.harold nichols never did it-why is jackson doing it now???????????????you do not need to redshirt a wrestler-you may do it in football because most footballers need to develop their skills and grow their muscle.... wrestlers-i was one- we had to cut weight ,not gain it....it does not make much sense to me to redshirt a wrestler.they should be wrestling and graduating within 4 years-let them get done in 4 years and let them start their lifes' work!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Redshirting is about sharpening technique and elevating to the next level without blowing eligibility, so that your school can get the maximum output from you and give you the best chance to place high. Even the best HS wrestlers have difficulty transitioning to college, especially D1.

No offense to Harold Nichols, but this is not 1970. Things are extremely different in college wrestling and the world of college sports in general. The argument that to be successful KJ should be doing now what Nichols did 40 years ago is ridiculous IMO. Show me a successful college wrestling coach today that doesn't redshirt his kids.
 
Total Team Points & Final Placing by ISU in Big 12 Championships

2011 - 31 (5th)
2010 - 69 (2nd)
2009 - 70 (1st)
2008 - 75.5 (1st)
2007 - 66.5 (1st)
2006 - 47.5 (4th)
2005 - 49 (2nd)
2004 - 46.5 (3rd)
2003 - 26.5 (5th)
2002 - 63.5 (3rd)
2001 - 67.5 (3rd)
2000 - 68 (2nd)
1999 - 64 (3rd)
1998 - 47 (4th)
1997 - 78 (2nd)
 
SvrWxCy said:
Total Team Points & Final Placing by ISU in Big 12 Championships

2011 - 31 (5th)
2010 - 69 (2nd)
2009 - 70 (1st)
2008 - 75.5 (1st)
2007 - 66.5 (1st)
2006 - 47.5 (4th)
2005 - 49 (2nd)
2004 - 46.5 (3rd)
2003 - 26.5 (5th)
2002 - 63.5 (3rd)
2001 - 67.5 (3rd)
2000 - 68 (2nd)
1999 - 64 (3rd)
1998 - 47 (4th)
1997 - 78 (2nd)
Click to expand...
With Nebby leaving the worst we can do will be fourth next year? Or will we add a UNI?

Guess pointing to Big 5 championships did not solve our basic problem: we were not very aggressive in the end.
 
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Wesley said:
With Nebby leaving the worst we can do will be fourth next year? Or will we add a UNI?.
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It has already been announced by the Big 12 that we will NOT be adding any teams next year. The NCAA has also already declared that the Big 12 championships will not have any automatic qualifiers next season with only four teams competing. Therefore all qualifiers by ISU next year will have to be by at-large bid...
 
woodie said:
recruiting,recruiting,recruiting!!!!!!!why are we redshirting good wrestlers.harold nichols never did it-why is jackson doing it now???????????????you do not need to redshirt a wrestler-you may do it in football because most footballers need to develop their skills and grow their muscle.... wrestlers-i was one- we had to cut weight ,not gain it....it does not make much sense to me to redshirt a wrestler.they should be wrestling and graduating within 4 years-let them get done in 4 years and let them start their lifes' work!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...



Um if you'd follow wrestling you'd know it has changed since Harold was the coach. We will be fine in a year or 2. One question I have is if we are not getting automatic bids next year and have to settle for at large bids is the Big 12 trying to Kill off wrestling at the 4 schools left? (since Texas dosen't have a team and couldn't dominate it)
 
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They can say that but they gave up their automatic qualifiers. I just question how many at large bids we get. It could make things a little difficult for B12 wrestling. If we'd add teams I'd hope we add 4 to make a full 8 man bracket. UNI, Wyoming, Boisie St. and I don't know who? North or South Dakota, Ut Valley? It would take a while for some of those schools to build up the quality of wrestlers they have to compete with.
 
SvrWxCy said:
From the statements released by the big 12 it certainly did not sound like they were interested in 'killing' off the conference wrestling...
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From the statements they have made it seems to me like they just consider the Big XII tourney more important than going to a regional qualifier. The only downside is that guys will only go based on how they have done during the season, and the conference tourney will be 100% about the Big XII and 0% about qualifying for the NCAAs. So a guy like Shafer would be staying home under this system.

I'm torn about this. I'd really like to see them include some schools like UNI and Air Force, but I understand that the Big XII doesn't allow schools to join for one particular sport.
 
woodie said:
recruiting,recruiting,recruiting!!!!!!!why are we redshirting good wrestlers.harold nichols never did it-why is jackson doing it now???????????????you do not need to redshirt a wrestler-you may do it in football because most footballers need to develop their skills and grow their muscle.... wrestlers-i was one- we had to cut weight ,not gain it....it does not make much sense to me to redshirt a wrestler.they should be wrestling and graduating within 4 years-let them get done in 4 years and let them start their lifes' work!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

I don't believe redshirting was an option during much of Nichols time, since freshmen were not eligible. I believe almost every program redshirts all of their freshmen, this is how they continue to build their programs.
 
woodie said:
recruiting,recruiting,recruiting!!!!!!!why are we redshirting good wrestlers.harold nichols never did it-why is jackson doing it now???????????????you do not need to redshirt a wrestler-you may do it in football because most footballers need to develop their skills and grow their muscle.... wrestlers-i was one- we had to cut weight ,not gain it....it does not make much sense to me to redshirt a wrestler.they should be wrestling and graduating within 4 years-let them get done in 4 years and let them start their lifes' work!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...


So you honestly think high school 125 pounders are as strong as college 125 pounders? 135 HS kids are as strong or stronger than 133 pounders? I could go on. That's silly--one of the biggest issues with a HS kid transitioning to college is STRENGTH.

I have some reservations about this program right now, but I can recognize that we bit the bullet this year. It had to be done and it was the best decision. We'll be better in the coming years but I just don't know how much. I see the Iowas, the Minnesotas, the PSUs and the Okie States of the world putting young teams on the mat right now, too, and they aren't having our struggles.
 
jsmith86 said:
A job at Penn State?
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And the claim to an undefeated career. He had a loss at the UNI Open while redshirting that doesn't count on his official record.

Everybody redshirts. Anyone who doesn't realize that hasn't been paying attention to wrestling in the past 40 years. The fact that we have a true freshman in the line-up this year should be a huge red flag for people to see how little Jackson has to work with.
 
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