Question to Hawk fans

[Clones85']

Honest question. Why are Hawk fans so in love with what Fran is doing with the program? I realize he is a new coach and most fanbases love a new coach. I get that, but I keep hearing fans say they love what he is doing with this team. What is he doing?

New offense? In Big 10 play Iowa has averaged the same amount of points as they averaged last year under Lickliter. Seriously there is no difference in points scored under this "uptempo" offense.

Wins? They won 4 games in Big 10 last year. 3 so far this year. I doubt they win more than 4. They beat Indiana twice last year. They beat them twice last year. They beat Mich St this year, they beat them in Lick's first season too. I would also argue that the Big 10 was much better last year than this year.

Recruits? Oglesby and White look exactly like every kid that Lickliter brought in during his time at Iowa.

I'm not putting down Fran and am not saying that he won't be a good coach at Iowa, I am just surprised to hear the talk by fans of how much they enjoy what he is doing with this team. I don't see it YET. Thoughts?

 

[AmesHawk]

Honest question. Why are Hawk fans so in love with what Fran is doing with the program? I realize he is a new coach and most fanbases love a new coach. I get that, but I keep hearing fans say they love what he is doing with this team. What is he doing?

New offense? In Big 10 play Iowa has averaged the same amount of points as they averaged last year under Lickliter. Seriously there is no difference in points scored under this "uptempo" offense.

Wins? They won 4 games in Big 10 last year. 3 so far this year. I doubt they win more than 4. They beat Indiana twice last year. They beat them twice last year. They beat Mich St this year, they beat them in Lick's first season too. I would also argue that the Big 10 was much better last year than this year.

Recruits? Oglesby and White look exactly like every kid that Lickliter brought in during his time at Iowa.

I'm not putting down Fran and am not saying that he won't be a good coach at Iowa, I am just surprised to hear the talk by fans of how much they enjoy what he is doing with this team. I don't see it YET. Thoughts?

For me its night and day. No longer do I have to watch the hawks pass the ball around for 30 seconds (if the ball was not stolen or thrown out of bounds by then), then chuck up a desperation 3 pointer to beat the shot clock.

Iowa is still young team, without really good big men. I have full confidence that once Fran gets more of his players, like Basabe, to run an uptempo game they will be scoring more. Iowa has put up 111 points, and 90 some this year, something a Lick team never accomplished. It was pretty uncommon to get into the 70's in that offense.

 

[Clones85']

For me its night and day. No longer do I have to watch the hawks pass the ball around for 30 seconds (if the ball was not stolen or thrown out of bounds by then), then chuck up a desperation 3 pointer to beat the shot clock.

Iowa is still young team, without really good big men. I have full confidence that once Fran gets more of his players, like Basabe, to run an uptempo game they will be scoring more. Iowa has put up 111 points, and 90 some this year, something a Lick team never accomplished. It was pretty uncommon to get into the 70's in that offense.

I understand what you are saying, but in reality there isn't really a difference in the last couple seasons. Points per game in conference play is barely up with talent that is just the same if not better than last year and it is a year older. Same amount of wins Recruiting hasn't gone well for Fran and I've been told that he didn't realize it would be this hard to recruit to Iowa.

Like I said, I understand Iowa fans like him and are excited for the future. I get that. I just don't get the comments about how this team is night and day from Lickliter. I don't see it yet

 

[tm3308]

I understand what you are saying, but in reality there isn't really a difference in the last couple seasons. Points per game in conference play is barely up with talent that is just the same if not better than last year and it is a year older. Same amount of wins Recruiting hasn't gone well for Fran and I've been told that he didn't realize it would be this hard to recruit to Iowa.

Like I said, I understand Iowa fans like him and are excited for the future. I get that. I just don't get the comments about how this team is night and day from Lickliter. I don't see it yet

I think right now, the program is in better shape. Our defense is better, for one. The scoring average is basically the same on defense as well (66.6 this year to 66 ppg last year), but we're maintaining that average while not making a concerted effort to limit the other team's possessions.

Offensively, we still have work to do. Oglesby sounds like another Gatens, which is fine by me. If Fran can get a few better players in, we can get a player similar Gatens and play him in the role he's best suited for (Kind of a similar situation with McCabe/Cole).

Aaron White, from what little I've seen and read, looks like he could be a diamond in the rough like Basabe/Cartwright. We're going to need guys like that for right now, because the big time talent simply will NOT come unless you have an established program to offer them.

Right now, it appears that Fran has an eye for talent (NOBODY wanted Cartwright, and Basabe was largely unnoticed as well). He seems similar to Ferentz in that regard, which is one reason why people are excited about him.

And the biggest difference between this year's team and Lickliter's? The attitude. Anybody who's ever been part of a rebuilding effort knows that the attitude/culture HAS to be the first thing to change for there to be any chance of success. This team actually looks like they're having fun out there. And they have a real "never say die" fire to them, where last year they really didn't have that.

 

[Clonehomer]

I'm sorry to have to defend Iowa fans but,

They may not be scoring more points right now, but they are doing a much better job at putting themselves in position to score. Unfortunately, Lickliter has recruited a lot of MVC or lower talent and they are just not able to convert some nights. IF Fran can bring in a couple more scorers, then they could be good in the future. It just might take a while for the Lickliter recruits to work their way out of the system.

In comparison to ISU, McDermott left nothing when he left so Fred was able to bring in a lot of guys right away giving us a talent upgrade for this year and next. If we were saddled with bad recruits then we'd be in the same shape for years to come (although the added depth may have resulted in a couple more wins this year). Sometimes it is just easier to rebuild with a clean slate*.



*This is all assuming that the 'scout team' is as good as advertised. If not, ignore everything said.

 

[rdubbs]

I suppose we could ask the same question about Cyclone fans and Hoiberg.

 

[kuhlman41]

I suppose we could ask the same question about Cyclone fans and Hoiberg.

I was thinking the exact same thing. What has Fred done to this point? I know most will say wait until next year, but I don't see it either. The most talented guy Fred has landed was mainly because nobobdy really wanted him, and the MSU transfer average 6 points per game.

I also see maybe one more win on ISU's schedule this year and you are losing your best scorer off this years team

 

[Clones85']

I suppose we could ask the same question about Cyclone fans and Hoiberg.

I was thinking the exact same thing. What has Fred done to this point? I know most will say wait until next year, but I don't see it either. The most talented guy Fred has landed was mainly because nobobdy really wanted him, and the MSU transfer average 6 points per game.

I also see maybe one more win on ISU's schedule this year and you are losing your best scorer off this years team

Freddy has brought in talent. You can downplay it all you want but he brought in 3 guys that were top 50 talent. That gives the fanbase hope for the future.

Don't get defensive on my question. I'm not saying Fran isn't a good coach. I think he took over a program in which Lickliter sucked the life out of (same as Greg). I'm just asking why Iowa fans keep saying they love what he is doing with the team. He hasn't done anything yet to differentiate himself from Lick. Recruits look the same. Wins look the same.

 

[kuhlman41]

Freddy has brought in talent. You can downplay it all you want but he brought in 3 guys that were top 50 talent. That gives the fanbase hope for the future.

Don't get defensive on my question. I'm not saying Fran isn't a good coach. I think he took over a program in which Lickliter sucked the life out of (same as Greg). I'm just asking why Iowa fans keep saying they love what he is doing with the team. He hasn't done anything yet to differentiate himself from Lick. Recruits look the same. Wins look the same.

If you think Cartwright and Basabe look the same as what Lick brought in, then I can't help you.

Wins do look the same to this point, but I have said all year that Iowa has only 3 D1 players on the team in Cartwright, Basabe, Marble. The good news is that 2 of the 3 are true freshman. I guess that is what Iowa fans are excited about!

Get back to me when Fred actually has to win a recruiting battle for one of those top 50 players. I am not saying they aren't good players, but there wasn't much competition for them after they left their original schools.

 

[hawkeyescott]

They aren't boring as hell to watch anymore. I wouldn't say they play an "uptempo" brand, they like to get out and run but at the same time they slow it down as well when the break isn't there.

Also Fran throws in different D's after timeouts, made baskets or missed baskets, he likes to press once in a while as well, something Lick never did. You could always count on a Lick team to play man to man and pick you up at half court for 40 minutes, it never changed not even game to game where Fran mixes it up possession to possession.

So while they may be scoring the same amount of points they are just playing a different type of basketball. He has said in the past that he wants to get more of "his" players in and once that happens and he can implement his system to the fullest and he has compared it to being similiar to what Tom Davis played but right now he just doesn't have the players for that type of system.

 

[Clones85']

If you think Cartwright and Basabe look the same as what Lick brought in, then I can't help you.

Wins do look the same to this point, but I have said all year that Iowa has only 3 D1 players on the team in Cartwright, Basabe, Marble. The good news is that 2 of the 3 are true freshman. I guess that is what Iowa fans are excited about!

Get back to me when Fred actually has to win a recruiting battle for one of those top 50 players. I am not saying they aren't good players, but there wasn't much competition for them after they left their original schools.

Basabe is good, but so was Aaron Fuller. Cartwright is ok, but he did start the year backing up Cully Payne. Matt Gatens isn't a D1 player? A top 100 recruit and a guy who has scored 1,000 points in 3 seasons and he isn't a D1 player? Things that I think Fran has that Lickliter didn't have:

Intesity on the sidelines
Players seem to like playing for him

I would be excited if I was an Iowa fan and saw that. Don't think I am ripping on him. I get the excitement. I don't get the comments, "I love what I am seeing from this team and how much Fran has changed them." That's all I am saying.

As far as Fred not winning recruiting battles. Royce White? Kentucky vs ISU? Tavon Sledge? Huggins, Lavin, Floyd all offered.

 

[Clones85']

They aren't boring as hell to watch anymore. I wouldn't say they play an "uptempo" brand, they like to get out and run but at the same time they slow it down as well when the break isn't there.

Also Fran throws in different D's after timeouts, made baskets or missed baskets, he likes to press once in a while as well, something Lick never did. You could always count on a Lick team to play man to man and pick you up at half court for 40 minutes, it never changed not even game to game where Fran mixes it up possession to possession.

So while they may be scoring the same amount of points they are just playing a different type of basketball. He has said in the past that he wants to get more of "his" players in and once that happens and he can implement his system to the fullest and he has compared it to being similiar to what Tom Davis played but right now he just doesn't have the players for that type of system.

Good reply. Thanks. That is what I was looking for.

 

[AllIowaTeams]

Aaron White is nothing like what Lickliter brought in for starters. He is 6'8" in bare feet and is very athletic. Oglesby who knows how he will turn out. He does look very similar to a Lickliter recruit at this point.

"Not seeing it yet" because Iowa's wins haven't increased is quite short-sighted in my opinion. The 2 most athletic players on the team are the 2 guys Fran brought in. Other than that he is playing with Lickliter's players so any type of "up tempo" offense that he wants to try and instill is going to run into problems. Year 3 will be the best year to compare in my opinion. By then Fran will have over half the team as "his guys". If the scoring is still the same then I will see your point, but expecting Fran to come in with basically all of Lick's guys and magically score 20 more points per game isn't realistic. It's also important to point out that Iowa has no shooters right now. They have no one that can consistently knock down the 3 like Scotty. Gatens is our best shooter, and he is below average. That is also holding their scoring down. They don't have a legitimate inside or outside threat.

But anyways, back to your original question here are several reasons why I am much more excited about Iowa basketball than I have been in years:

1. Fran's passion. I'm sure Lickliter wanted to win, but he was as emotive as a stone. A guy like that isn't going to be able to fire a team up. I also didn't feel like the players cared all that much by the end of the season last year. Right now I'm watching a team that is severely outmatched in talent almost every night, and yet they continue to play hard and give it their all. That's all I can ask for this year. I knew the wins wouldn't be there, but if the players clearly show they care and don't give up despite their record I respect that. Sure, I could do with a few less T's from Fran, but hey, it's not keeping us from the NIT or anything so I can live with that.

2. Recruits. I see a lot of Cyclone fans say they don't see how Fran's recruiting has been better. I can understand that as I wouldn't expect Cyclone fans to follow Iowa's recruiting that closely. But I see a marked difference. Our 2 best players this year, IMHO, are Basabe (obviously) and Cartwright. Those are the only 2 Fran recruits on the team. Oglesby is a top 150 talent. Sure on paper he looks a lot like a Lick recruit, but Lick wasn't bringing in that type of talent. And Aaron White is a bit of an unknown, but everything I've read about the kid really leads me to believe he could be a big surprise like Basabe has been. I hear he's very athletic, and he already has great size. From what I hear he could add a bit of weight and be a great fit at the 3. Lick wasn't bringing in athletic guys like Fran has so far. I'm not saying the 4 Fran has brought in so far are All-Americans by any means, but to me they are better than anything Lick brought in. I will give Lick credit for Marble as I think he could really be good by year 3 as he is very raw and has a ton of potential. On top of that take a look at some of the recruiting sites. There are a lot of 4* talents that have Iowa as a school they are considering. Do I expect most or maybe even any to sign? No, of course not. But hey, that consideration is something we never had under Lickliter. There are more 4* and up talents right now with Iowa on their radar then there were in 3 years with Lick.

3. Fan interest. Yea, yea, I know the "Let's be Mad Again" motto is a bit silly, and hardly an exercise in clarity, but he's been doing a good job at getting Hawk fans "mad again". Attendance is up. Passion is up. I would watch the games when Lickliter coached and be more or less indifferent. I didn't expect to be competitive in games against superior teams, and I wasn't upset when we lost to inferior teams. Now, I am very into the games, and I go in to games against superior opponents (perhaps with my goggles on) and at least expect Iowa to be competitive. I also get frustrated when we play like crap, instead of expecting it, and am disappointed when we have games like the one against Minny on Sunday.

So in a nutshell Iowa's wins and scoring being similar to last year does not surprise me. This is still mostly a Lickliter team. You can't fit a square peg into a round hole, so to speak, and expect it to fit. But I am already looking forward to next season and beyond, and I can't say I've felt that way since the middle of the Alford era.

 

[isuno1fan]

Fran has shown me he can coach. Cartwright was a pretty darn good find. I'm surprised how well he is playing.

All going to come down to recruiting for Fran though.

 

[mikem]

Fran has shown me he can coach. Cartwright was a pretty darn good find. I'm surprised how well he is playing.

All going to come down to recruiting for Fran though.

See, this is the correct answer. I don't think anyone has ever said that he can't coach. Can he get enough players to ever win? That is the question.

I know that all of these hawks are all excited that they beat Indiana twice, and a Michigan State team that has thrown in the towel (hmm these are the same people down playing our win at UT for the same reason, interesting their hypocrisy knows no boundries), but even Lick beat an actual good wisconsin team.

 

[tm3308]

See, this is the correct answer. I don't think anyone has ever said that he can't coach. Can he get enough players to ever win? That is the question.

I know that all of these hawks are all excited that they beat Indiana twice, and a Michigan State team that has thrown in the towel (hmm these are the same people down playing our win at UT for the same reason, interesting their hypocrisy knows no boundries), but even Lick beat an actual good wisconsin team.

I'm excited about Fran because he has definitely shown he can coach. And he seems to have a good eye for talent (NOBODY wanted Cartwright, and he's panned out very well for us). I've read some positive things about Aaron White (and not from Hawk fans), even though he's not highly touted. Given Fran's current batting average (1.000), I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to White. Oglesby seems to be the second coming of Gatens. Which is perfectly fine if we get some more players who are better, so that Oglesby can play the role that Gatens would/should have been on a better team. Kind of like McCabe/Cole.

 

[mikem]

I'm excited about Fran because he has definitely shown he can coach. And he seems to have a good eye for talent (NOBODY wanted Cartwright, and he's panned out very well for us). I've read some positive things about Aaron White (and not from Hawk fans), even though he's not highly touted. Given Fran's current batting average (1.000), I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to White. Oglesby seems to be the second coming of Gatens. Which is perfectly fine if we get some more players who are better, so that Oglesby can play the role that Gatens would/should have been on a better team. Kind of like McCabe/Cole.

He has a track record of success, I have not seen anyone deny that. But Siena was always a top mid major job, going back to Paul Hewitt.....Yes he did a fine job there, and at NC whatever, but always remember what Tim Floyd said "the hardest jump in coaching is from the mid major to top 6 conference." Iowa State has learned that the hard way, but the last two coaches at the u are both examples of mid major coaches failing.

But the fact that you are using the same level of blind faith that you are accusing Iowa State fans of with the group coming in (actually even more so, because the transfers coming to Iowa State have shown that they can play at the D1 level).

Plus, nobody talks about the freshmen and the juco point guard that Fred has recruited for next year, remember he has more commits from freshman than mccaffery does.

It's ok to be excited because he is new, but it's a bigger turnaround that apparently you all seem to think there. It is not a basketball school, and they have a lot of work to do just to get the facilities to a competitive level. Then you have to change a lot of the perception of your school program wise.

I guess we will have to wait and see what happens if they are 3- whatever at this stage in the Big 10 next year. He's lucky now, he has the previous coaches to still take the blame in the fans eyes, so did McDermott for the first three years he was here. IF he gets it going, then good for him, hawk fans have been humbled since the days of Tom Davis, and they will give him great praise for making a tournament now. Hopefully, for his sake, he can accomplish that.

 

[tm3308]

He has a track record of success, I have not seen anyone deny that. But Siena was always a top mid major job, going back to Paul Hewitt.....Yes he did a fine job there, and at NC whatever, but always remember what Tim Floyd said "the hardest jump in coaching is from the mid major to top 6 conference." Iowa State has learned that the hard way, but the last two coaches at the u are both examples of mid major coaches failing.

But the fact that you are using the same level of blind faith that you are accusing Iowa State fans of with the group coming in (actually even more so, because the transfers coming to Iowa State have shown that they can play at the D1 level).

Plus, nobody talks about the freshmen and the juco point guard that Fred has recruited for next year, remember he has more commits from freshman than mccaffery does.

It's ok to be excited because he is new, but it's a bigger turnaround that apparently you all seem to think there. It is not a basketball school, and they have a lot of work to do just to get the facilities to a competitive level. Then you have to change a lot of the perception of your school program wise.

I guess we will have to wait and see what happens if they are 3- whatever at this stage in the Big 10 next year. He's lucky now, he has the previous coaches to still take the blame in the fans eyes, so did McDermott for the first three years he was here. IF he gets it going, then good for him, hawk fans have been humbled since the days of Tom Davis, and they will give him great praise for making a tournament now. Hopefully, for his sake, he can accomplish that.

Keep in mind that I've never put down ISU for taking on transfers (though I did find Giggles' Southwest joke pretty funny, I admit).

And Sienna was a mid-major job, yes. But he's still gotten 2 players to Iowa that not many people wanted (a couple low-level Big East teams showed interest in Basabe after Sienna offered). That's not a bad track record for recruiting underrated players, even in just 3 months of work (at the time Basabe/Cartwright came aboard). His recruiting since arriving in Iowa City was what the batting average reference was for.