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Isaiah Austin to Baylor

CyJack13 said:
Couldn't schools like UNC and Kansas and Texas make this same argument if we start landing top 50 players? I mean they have better tradition, a larger fanbase, more players in the NBA, why would a player ever want to go to Ames when they could go there? It's pretty funny that you think no one should ever want to go to Baylor but it's perfectly reasonable they go to Ames.
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I haven't read where people are saying it's reasonable these recruits come to Ames. We rarely, RARELY, get 5 star recruits. In fact, how often as it happened...twice ever? I guess Royce White would be considered a 5 star transfer, but still...

We don't get 4 star recruits very often either...
 
halaleezy said:
Kids like Austin didn't used to exist. The big man who can shoot the 3 and create off the bounce didn't exist until recently (see Nowitzki, Dirk or Durant, Kevin). Also, Dallas and Houston didn't used to be basketball recruiting hotbeds like they are now. It used to be Chicago, New York, Baltimore, Los Angeles, places like that. There have been countless articles written about the rise of prep hoops in Texas and in other major metropolitan areas. Surely you aren't that naive.

As for Texas, yes, it is close, but not closer to Dallas, and not really any closer to Houston than Waco is. Texas has been more successful historically, but Drew has made a living recruiting kids who go to small, faith-based schools (Carter, Dunn, Austin, etc.) Those types of kids are much more likely to feel more comfortable at a smaller, faith-based college like Baylor than they are at a mega-campus in one of the more radical cities in Texas.
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I'm talking more or less about the "facts" that you claim that the only reason Scott Drew has a bad rep is because Rick Barnes tells reporters "inside info". No Scott Drew has earned his negative rep in several ways, ******* off Rick Barnes is just one.
 
Cloned4Life said:
I haven't read where people are saying it's reasonable these recruits come to Ames. We rarely, RARELY, get 5 star recruits. In fact, how often as it happened...twice ever? I guess Royce White would be considered a 5 star transfer, but still...

We don't get 4 star recruits very often either...
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exactly. And BU's had only 2 (actually just one, Austin still has almost 2 yrs to change his mind). This thread makes it sound like BU suddenly has a full team of 4's and 5's. like KU, when it's not true.
 
halaleezy said:
Would you say it is fair to state that some coaches are better than others? That some coaches are better in-game coaches than others? That some coaches are better recruiters than others? I mean, if the coaching world is so high-stress and competitive, then in a free-market economy, it would stand to reason that coaching is a fairly valued commodity, right? The market is efficient, and no one coach is better than any other. The truth is, coaching is difficult, and there is a great degree of disparity amongst coaches, in both talent and salary.

Maybe Baylor just got a great hire. Maybe Scott Drew had a knack for recruiting prior to coming to Baylor, and getting a bigger stage in an area that is a recruiting hotbed allowed him to showcase his talents better. Maybe he is a young Coach K at Duke. Or maybe not. Time will tell, but as of right now, there has been zero evidence that he's cheating whatsoever and any assertion that he is cheating is nothing more than conjecture, plain and simple.
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Coach K in waiting is one explanation. Given the landscape of college basketball, a weasley cheater is a more reasonable explanation.

I'm not here to say that some coaches aren't better recruiters than others. We just managed to get rid of a coach that was a downright embarassment when it comes to recruiting. But to insinuate he is getting these players because he "wants it more" is an insult to every other coach in America. Every coach slaves away on the recruiting trails, and every coach wants a highly coveted player just as much as Scott Drew.

Listen, if you take a subjective look at this you'll realize it's shady as can be. Programs just don't go from the most disgraced program in the nation to a national contender bringing in top notch talent simply because they bring in a coach who "wants it more". While you can conjure up all the explanations you want, the least common dominator for programs that go from awful to good quickly is cheating.
 
Clonefan32 said:
While you can conjure up all the explanations you want, the least common dominator for programs that go from awful to good quickly is cheating.
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Can you provide an example of a recent NCAA program that quickly went from awful to good that was found to do so by cheating?
 
Clonefan32 said:
Programs just don't go from the most disgraced program in the nation to a national contender bringing in top notch talent simply because they bring in a coach who "wants it more".
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This is a valid point. I would submit to you that there are definitely some peripheral reasons that Baylor has gotten good seemingly overnight (7 years is a long time to become an overnight success, though). I would elaborate, but I realize I am on your board and probably wearing out my welcome. No one wants to hear someone tout the glories of Baylor on an ISU board. Anyway, it's been good chatting with you guys, even if we don't necessarily agree. Good luck to you under Hoiberg, he's a good dude, and I think he'll get you guys turned around.
 
Is there a viable explanation that Drew is just some amazing recruiter that has been able to bring top-notch players to a program with some serious baggage, a non-existant fan base, and a complete lack of basketball tradition while running a clean program through his ability to "outwork" others? Yes.

Is it more reasonable to believe that Scott Drew has devleoped the same illegal recruiting tactics that other coaches have found success with rather than assuming that he is, in fact, the Messiah of Recruiting? Yes.
 
halaleezy said:
This is a valid point. I would submit to you that there are definitely some peripheral reasons that Baylor has gotten good seemingly overnight (7 years is a long time to become an overnight success, though). I would elaborate, but I realize I am on your board and probably wearing out my welcome. No one wants to hear someone tout the glories of Baylor on an ISU board. Anyway, it's been good chatting with you guys, even if we don't necessarily agree. Good luck to you under Hoiberg, he's a good dude, and I think he'll get you guys turned around.
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Good luck to you as well. I am sure if Coach Hoiberg every gets accused of using "questionable" recruiting techniques many on this board (myself included) will be as quick to defend him as you were to defend Coach Drew.
 
Clonefan32 said:
Is there a viable explanation that Drew is just some amazing recruiter that has been able to bring top-notch players to a program with some serious baggage, a non-existant fan base, and a complete lack of basketball tradition while running a clean program through his ability to "outwork" others? Yes.

Is it more reasonable to believe that Scott Drew has devleoped the same illegal recruiting tactics that other coaches have found success with rather than assuming that he is, in fact, the Messiah of Recruiting? Yes.
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This post pretty much nails it, I think, despite a little over-exaggeration. Sure, we as a fans don't have solid proof that there's anything foul going on at Baylor. But, likewise, Baylor fans don't have any proof that their program is playing by the same rules as everyone else. And it's a far more likely explanation, based on the weight of the evidence, that it's not all clean in Waco.
 
jbhtexas said:
Can you provide an example of a recent NCAA program that quickly went from awful to good that was found to do so by cheating?
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Really? Isn't Oklahoma in some trouble now? Not that they were awful but they became pretty damn good and were getting some 5 star players. Than we found out they were getting paid.
 
Clonefan32 said:
Sure, UNLV under Tark, Memphis under Cal, UMass under Cal.
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As far as Calipari winning at Memphis and UMass, his winning at those places doesn't scream "cheating". He may very well have cheated, but just because he won at those places doesn't mean he cheated.

Memphis had a strong MBB history prior to Calipari. Unless Bartow, Yater, Kirk and Finch were cheaters, it would seem that winning at Memphis doesn't require cheating. At least as I look at Memphis history, somebody winning there doesn't scream "cheater". The program had been "down" for at most two seasons, which certainly wasn't like Baylor was before Drew got there.
1970–1974 Gene Bartow 4 83–32 .722
1974–1979 Wayne Yates 5 93–49 .655
1979–1986 Dana Kirk 158–58 .731
1986–1997 Larry Finch 220–130 .629
1997–1999 Tic Price 30–27 .526
1999–2000 Johnny Jones 1 15–16 .484 (interim)
2000–2009 John Calipari 214–69 .756
2009–Present Josh Pastner 24–10 .706

Only one player that Calipari coached at UMass (Marcus Camby) made it to the NBA. From John Calipari - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In February 2010, Pat Forde, writer of a regular college sports column called "Forde Minutes" for ESPN.com, vividly recalled the 1992 team:

“ Calipari's greatest strength as a coach is his ability to create teams that play together. His 1992 Massachusetts team remains one of the most overachieving units The Minutes has ever seen, featuring a shooting guard with range so limited he made one 3-pointer all season (Jim McCoy), a 6-foot-3 power forward (Will Herndon), and a left-handed center who stood all of 6-7 (Harper Williams). Somehow, that collection of marginal talent went 30-5 and advanced to the NCAA Sweet 16.[5]
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If Calipari was cheating to get big-time talent at UMass, he certainly wasn't doing a good job of it. He won at UMass by overachieving with average players. It looks to me like Calipari did a great coaching job with average players at Umass. Again, not saying he didn't cheat there, but what indicates that he was? He certainly didn't have great talent on his teams.

In addition, UMass had a good MBB program up until the late 1970's, about 10 years before Calipari took over. The coach who retired in 1978 had a 0.612 winning % over 13 years. Dr. J and Rick Pitino played for UMass, so there was some MBB history there. It took Calipari three years to win a conference title in a not-exactly-powerhouse conference, and 5 years to make the NCAA tourney. That's not exactly a quick transformation.

Tark may be a good example, though. Before UNLV, Tarkanian was 102-20 at Long Beach State. As soon as he left LBS in 1973 for UNLV, LBS got on probation for recruiting violations that went on while Tark was there. And later UNLV got in trouble as well for things that went on while Tark was coach.
 
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kucyclone said:
Sure, we as a fans don't have solid proof that there's anything foul going on at Baylor. But, likewise, Baylor fans don't have any proof that their program is playing by the same rules as everyone else.
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Just when I thought things couldn't get any worse in this thread...Now, I guess fans have to prove that their coach isn't cheating... :no:
 
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