Isaiah Austin to Baylor

[halaleezy]

What exactly does "works harder" mean? You bring it up a couple times, but never really go into specifics in your thesis. The NCAA has set rules on how many times you can visit/contact a player, so what exactly is Baylor doing to "outwork" these other schools?

Dodd refers to it in his article:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Maybe they're not being hustled these days so much as outhustled. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]

"If I answer that then they're going to be mad, thinking I outwork them," Drew said, relaxing after dinner at Anthony's Restaurant in downtown Kansas City prior to Thursday's conference tournament opener. [/FONT]
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But what if it's true? What if your staff shows up for a game to scout a player in the offseason? [/FONT]
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"Baylor," Drew said proudly, "stays for the whole day. We're going to be first in the gym so when [prospects] walk in, they're going to see us first." [/FONT]
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What if your coach drives an SUV? So does Drew. He's the white dude tooling around Waco in a black Escalade. That's not a big deal on the surface, but look close. If the whole package -- a Caddy SUV with custom rims -- happens to appeal to recruits, then that's another Baylor advantage. [/FONT]
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"Coaches are going to be [upset] if they hear that," Drew said. [/FONT]
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But this is what Drew was brought in to do. He was hired from Valparaiso, where he was an assistant for his father, Homer, then the head coach for one season. Known as a recruiting whiz, Scott Drew had landed several talented players from overseas. At Baylor, he can afford to recruit more domestically. Top-five player Perry Jones will join the Bears next season. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica] [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica] Sophomore forward Quincy Acy got home from his prom at 7 a.m. He had an hour to sleep before his mom told him he better get his behind to church at 9 a.m. Drew, assistant Jerome Tang and then-assistant Matthew Driscoll were there to show their faces and support. If they were going to be there to see him, he had better be there to be seen. [/FONT]
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"I was a zombie," Acy said. [/FONT]
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Later, he became a Bear.[/FONT]

Drew always prides himself in being the first one into the gym at a recruit's game, and the last one out. He's essentially the coaching version of a gym rat. No one is shocked when a guy who spends more hours in the gym than anyone else becomes a better basketball player. Why would people be shocked that someone who works at recruiting harder and longer becomes a better recruiter?

Also, kucyclone, you'll have to define what you mean by "perfectly clean program" before I can answer your question. What is "perfectly clean" to one person may not be to another.

 

[thatguy]

Dodd refers to it in his article:
Drew always prides himself in being the first one into the gym at a recruit's game, and the last one out. He's essentially the coaching version of a gym rat. No one is shocked when a guy who spends more hours in the gym than anyone else becomes a better basketball player. Why would people be shocked that someone who works at recruiting harder and longer becomes a better recruiter?

Also, kucyclone, you'll have to define what you mean by "perfectly clean program" before I can answer your question. What is "perfectly clean" to one person may not be to another.

It's adorable that you believe all the stuff printed in puff pieces, but frankly, if you believe that he gets recruits because he is the first one in the gym than i got tons of stuff in tons of places i would like to sell you.
Maybe living in reality has made me overly cynical, but, like somebody said before, smoke usually equals fire and there is plenty of smoke coming out of Waco.

 

[Clonefan32]

Dodd refers to it in his article:
Drew always prides himself in being the first one into the gym at a recruit's game, and the last one out. He's essentially the coaching version of a gym rat. No one is shocked when a guy who spends more hours in the gym than anyone else becomes a better basketball player. Why would people be shocked that someone who works at recruiting harder and longer becomes a better recruiter?

Also, kucyclone, you'll have to define what you mean by "perfectly clean program" before I can answer your question. What is "perfectly clean" to one person may not be to another.

Ah I see, first one in to the gym so no other coaches spot the multitude of recuriting infractions he commits, last one out for the same reason...makes sense!

Get real. You really think he is bringing in these recruits because he is "outworking" the competition? Don't you think if it was as easy as showing up to games early and staying late and talking to kids every waking moment that every coach would do the same? Actually, do you really think every coach isn't doing the same already? Please.

Enjoy your run. He will bail for another job as soon as the NCAA catches on, and Baylor will end up right back on probation.

 

[jbhtexas]

Ha I was going to say the same thing but went with the Barry Bonds thing instead

They are both dumb comparisons, so it would have been a FAIL either way...

 

[halaleezy]

It's adorable that you believe all the stuff printed in puff pieces, but frankly, if you believe that he gets recruits because he is the first one in the gym than i got tons of stuff in tons of places i would like to sell you.
Maybe living in reality has made me overly cynical, but, like somebody said before, smoke usually equals fire and there is plenty of smoke coming out of Waco.

Likewise, it's adorable that you believe all the stuff printed in pieces intentionally placed to make Drew look bad (what you refer to as "smoke"). Look, I said in my initial post that I'm not going to change anyone's mind that already has preconceived notions about what is or isn't going on in Waco. You'll believe what you want to believe, whether good or bad, about Drew. That's fine, it doesn't keep me up at night. The reason I posted was there were just so many fallacies in this thread that I thought it would be proper to correct a few of them with some facts and then give you an article that addressed some of the issues brought up in the thread.

 

[jbhtexas]

The Drew defenders (and I'd like to welcome Scott Drew's brother, ISU BET, to the board) are wrong here, in my opinion. You say you need proof of something to find him guilty. This is ludicrous. A reasonable human mind is capable of drawing inferences from incomplete evidence. You must understand that, in the coaching profession, turning another coach in is almost as much of a sin as committing the same violation yourself.

So, in absence of another coach turning him in, here's the evidence: Drew has brought multiple McDonald's All-Americans to Baylor, a small baptist school with a poor basketball following and history. Meanwhile, several reports from multiple places have popped up saying he is engaging in dirty, unethical, and possibly illegal recruiting. And he's been confronted by Bob Knight, perhaps the icon in the game today, about his recruiting. And I'm sure I'm forgetting some.

I'm just not sure how a reasonable mind can look at this whole picture and declare that everything is clean down in Waco.

It is probably as clean in Waco as it is in Lawrence. Is that reasonable enough?

 

[Knownothing]

He reminds me of the Basketball Barry Switzer. Just has that feel about him. I believe he is cheating. My opinion. Then again what college coach is not cheating. Probably the guy leading Creighton right now.

 

[halaleezy]

Ah I see, first one in to the gym so no other coaches spot the multitude of recuriting infractions he commits, last one out for the same reason...makes sense!

Get real. You really think he is bringing in these recruits because he is "outworking" the competition? Don't you think if it was as easy as showing up to games early and staying late and talking to kids every waking moment that every coach would do the same? Actually, do you really think every coach isn't doing the same already? Please.

Enjoy your run. He will bail for another job as soon as the NCAA catches on, and Baylor will end up right back on probation.

Don't you think that everyone knows that a major reason that Michael Jordan was so good was because he spent countless nights in the gym rather than going home and sleeping or relaxing? I mean, if he's even said that was a major contributor to why he was so good, then why doesn't everyone do it? Oh, right, because it's hard work. Not everyone works hard, and some people just outwork others. It's why the smartest kids aren't always the most successful, or the best pure athletes don't always pan out.

Did MJ had some amazing God-given talent? Absolutely. Did he work harder than everyone else in addition to his talent? Yes, that's why he was the best. Not comparing Drew to Jordan (coaching-wise), but Drew does have some God-given talent as a coach. If you combine that with a desire to work harder than everyone else, you get results.

 

[Clonefan32]

It's adorable that you believe all the stuff printed in puff pieces, but frankly, if you believe that he gets recruits because he is the first one in the gym than i got tons of stuff in tons of places i would like to sell you.
Maybe living in reality has made me overly cynical, but, like somebody said before, smoke usually equals fire and there is plenty of smoke coming out of Waco.

Coach Drew better be quiet about this working hard and watching recruits play stuff...other coaches may catch on and begin taking his recruits.

 

[Clonefan32]

Don't you think that everyone knows that a major reason that Michael Jordan was so good was because he spent countless nights in the gym rather than going home and sleeping or relaxing? I mean, if he's even said that was a major contributor to why he was so good, then why doesn't everyone do it? Oh, right, because it's hard work. Not everyone works hard, and some people just outwork others. It's why the smartest kids aren't always the most successful, or the best pure athletes don't always pan out.

Did MJ had some amazing God-given talent? Absolutely. Did he work harder than everyone else in addition to his talent? Yes, that's why he was the best. Not comparing Drew to Jordan (coaching-wise), but Drew does have some God-given talent as a coach. If you combine that with a desire to work harder than everyone else, you get results.

Do you not realize how high-stress the coaching world is? Do you honestly believe that Drew is out on the recruiting trail more than other coaches? In a profession where one or two bad years costs you your job, I can garuntee that what Drew is doing isn't even close to unique. This "just wanting it more" mentality maybe works in high school football, but to say that Drew is pulling this talent because he works harder and wants it more than other coaches is a joke. Drew spends just as much time "working hard" as other coaches, only difference is "working hard" for some coaches probably means doing so within the constraints of the rules.

 

[Big12Mania]

Some of guys are geographically stupid. Has it ever registered with you that Mama makes some of these decisions and Mama likes to be there in person to watch her baby boy play? Jones and Austin are both less than 90 miles from Waco. LeBryan Nash is a 2011 5 star who has BU on his short list. Where is he from? Tweety Carter? No other big time school wanted him. Lace Dunn? Had 25 people in his HS School and was scared to death of attending large schools like LSU. How many 4 or 5 stars has Drew signed that weren't within 2-3 hr driving distance of Waco on gameday? Dallas, Fort Worth, Austin, Houston, and San Antonio are all close to Baylor.

Now, what metropolitan cities are within 2 hrs of Ames? Should we assume ISU cheated to get Fizer since he was nowhere near Ames?

 

[Clones85']

They are both dumb comparisons, so it would have been a FAIL either way...

Please explain with your superior knowledge how they are dumb comparisons.

Can I prove that Bonds used roids? No. Can I prove that Drew cheats? No. Do I have a pretty good idea based on common sense that both are guilty? Yes. Explain the difference between the two please

 

[bearfan08]

No coach is 100% clean. As stated earlier there is the boheim qoute that says they all break rules because there are so many and they are hard to keep track of. Baylor just got its probation lifted this summer, and they were under a lot of scrutiny by the NCAA during their probation time due to the severity of the infractions. That is the reason that I think Drew is running his program clean enough.

If the NCAA had found something when Baylor was on probation what makes you think they wouldn't blast the program into oblivion. They love picking on small schools like Baylor. Those Barnes qoutes came out after Baylor beat them in the Big 12 tournament, and he was probably ****** at the time.

Also Self hasn't been ****** until recently when Drew pulled the guys off the court at KU when KU was playing their big circle jerk intro video. It was a ballsy move and ****** of Self.

 

[halaleezy]

Do you not realize how high-stress the coaching world is? Do you honestly believe that Drew is out on the recruiting trail more than other coaches? In a profession where one or two bad years costs you your job, I can garuntee that what Drew is doing isn't even close to unique. This "just wanting it more" mentality maybe works in high school football, but to say that Drew is pulling this talent because he works harder and wants it more than other coaches is a joke. Drew spends just as much time "working hard" as other coaches, only difference is "working hard" for some coaches probably means doing so within the constraints of the rules.

Would you say it is fair to state that some coaches are better than others? That some coaches are better in-game coaches than others? That some coaches are better recruiters than others? I mean, if the coaching world is so high-stress and competitive, then in a free-market economy, it would stand to reason that coaching is a fairly valued commodity, right? The market is efficient, and no one coach is better than any other. The truth is, coaching is difficult, and there is a great degree of disparity amongst coaches, in both talent and salary.

Maybe Baylor just got a great hire. Maybe Scott Drew had a knack for recruiting prior to coming to Baylor, and getting a bigger stage in an area that is a recruiting hotbed allowed him to showcase his talents better. Maybe he is a young Coach K at Duke. Or maybe not. Time will tell, but as of right now, there has been zero evidence that he's cheating whatsoever and any assertion that he is cheating is nothing more than conjecture, plain and simple.

 

[Clones85']

Some of guys are geographically stupid. Has it ever registered with you that Mama makes some of these decisions and Mama likes to be there in person to watch her baby boy play? Jones and Austin are both less than 90 miles from Waco. LeBryan Nash is a 2011 5 star who has BU on his short list. Where is he from? Tweety Carter? No other big time school wanted him. Lace Dunn? Had 25 people in his HS School and was scared to death of attending large schools like LSU. How many 4 or 5 stars has Drew signed that weren't within 2-3 hr driving distance of Waco on gameday? Dallas, Fort Worth, Austin, Houston, and San Antonio are all close to Baylor.

Now, what metropolitan cities are within 2 hrs of Ames? Should we assume ISU cheated to get Fizer since he was nowhere near Ames?

Where did all those kids go BEFORE Drew? Isn't Texas close? A much more successful school in a better city? Where did kids like Austin use to go?

 

[CyJack13]

Where did all those kids go BEFORE Drew? Isn't Texas close? A much more successful school in a better city? Where did kids like Austin use to go?

Maybe they wanted to play for a guy that could actually coach?

 

[thatguy]

Likewise, it's adorable that you believe all the stuff printed in pieces intentionally placed to make Drew look bad (what you refer to as "smoke"). Look, I said in my initial post that I'm not going to change anyone's mind that already has preconceived notions about what is or isn't going on in Waco. You'll believe what you want to believe, whether good or bad, about Drew. That's fine, it doesn't keep me up at night. The reason I posted was there were just so many fallacies in this thread that I thought it would be proper to correct a few of them with some facts and then give you an article that addressed some of the issues brought up in the thread.

don't come on our board, preaching (sorry wrong word with Baylor fans), ummmm...claiming to possess facts and shoving them down our throats when all you know is what your university and local press is telling you. Your "facts" are as solid as our speculation so don't try and act holier than us, and correct our "fallacies" that you have no idea are true or not.

 

[halaleezy]

Where did all those kids go BEFORE Drew? Isn't Texas close? A much more successful school in a better city? Where did kids like Austin use to go?

Kids like Austin didn't used to exist. The big man who can shoot the 3 and create off the bounce didn't exist until recently (see Nowitzki, Dirk or Durant, Kevin). Also, Dallas and Houston didn't used to be basketball recruiting hotbeds like they are now. It used to be Chicago, New York, Baltimore, Los Angeles, places like that. There have been countless articles written about the rise of prep hoops in Texas and in other major metropolitan areas. Surely you aren't that naive.

As for Texas, yes, it is close, but not closer to Dallas, and not really any closer to Houston than Waco is. Texas has been more successful historically, but Drew has made a living recruiting kids who go to small, faith-based schools (Carter, Dunn, Austin, etc.) Those types of kids are much more likely to feel more comfortable at a smaller, faith-based college like Baylor than they are at a mega-campus in one of the more radical cities in Texas.

 

[Big12Mania]

They went to whatever school was "in" at that time. For most of the 80s it was SMU, UH and OU. In the 90s it was Arkansas , OSU and UT. In the early 2000's it was UT, KU, OU or outside the region. Barnes is no longer the type of coach that a lot of these kids want to play for because he's too "old school."

 

[halaleezy]

don't come on our board, preaching (sorry wrong word with Baylor fans), ummmm...claiming to possess facts and shoving them down our throats when all you know is what your university and local press is telling you. Your "facts" are as solid as our speculation so don't try and act holier than us, and correct our "fallacies" that you have no idea are true or not.

The only "facts" I claim to possess, are indeed, facts. I stated how many stars players who committed to Baylor had, in response to the claims that Drew had been signing 4 and 5 star guys from the jump. That is a fallacy. I also presented another theory as to why Drew is successful (aside from the obvious cheating, I mean who would ever commit to a school other than UT, KU, UCLA or Kentucky if they could?), that being that he outworks people. I'm sorry if I offended you, but I think I do have more insight into the Baylor program than most on this board. Like I said, think what you want to think, it's no skin off my back. I'm not shoving anything down your throat that can't be obtained by a simple Google search.