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Bad News for Protestants

No where does it say Protestants are going to hell.

That being said, it seems pretty arrogant of the church to take this position. However, I'm not a catholic so it's really not my place to tell the church what to do.

This has always been the position of the catholic church I believe.
 
I'd sure love to know what copy of the Bible the pope is reading. Not one of my nor my wife's versions say anything about the attendance of a Catholic church being the key to salvation. All of ours talk about the belief of the death and resurrection of Christ and the personal acceptance of Him as your Savior. So why isn't he teaching this?
 
Hoo boy.

Showing this to my girlfriend (who is Catholic) almost convinced her to convert to lutheranism, but I had to talk her out of it, saying it's just the Pope's opinion, and not necessarily a core Catholic belief. :rofl8yi: Oh well, I don't believe that I'm condemned to hell just because some guy in the Vatican says so.
 
AirWalke said:
Hoo boy.

Showing this to my girlfriend (who is Catholic) almost convinced her to convert to lutheranism, but I had to talk her out of it, saying it's just the Pope's opinion, and not necessarily a core Catholic belief. :rofl8yi: Oh well, I don't believe that I'm condemned to hell just because some guy in the Vatican says so.
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AirWalke, the Pope's opinion (on whatever subject he happens to opine) is core Catholic belief. As for his recent statements, he is simply reiterating what has been the official position of the Catholic Church regarding Protestant churches for centuries now.
 
BvK1126 said:
AirWalke, the Pope's opinion (on whatever subject he happens to opine) is core Catholic belief. As for his recent statements, he is simply reiterating what has been the official position of the Catholic Church regarding Protestant churches for centuries now.
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That's certainly strange, I was under the impression that there was an effort to reunite, or at least mend the wounds between Catholics and Protestants. I know that within the Lutheran church, there's an effort to reintroduce Catholic traditions for use during services in order to close the gap between the two.

Why can't there just be peace in Christianity. It's hypocritical to lead your life as Jesus would, only to talk down to those lowly Protestants and say that God doesn't acknowledge them...
 
AirWalke said:
That's certainly strange, I was under the impression that there was an effort to reunite, or at least mend the wounds between Catholics and Protestants. I know that within the Lutheran church, there's an effort to reintroduce Catholic traditions for use during services in order to close the gap between the two.

Why can't there just be peace in Christianity. It's hypocritical to lead your life as Jesus would, only to talk down to those lowly Protestants and say that God doesn't acknowledge them...
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There are a number of ongoing ecumenical dialogs between Catholics and Protestants (especially Catholics and some of the Lutheran denominations), but these really just serve as good PR more than anything. There are some fundamental theological differences between Catholics and Protestants (including Lutherans) that no amount of similarity in liturgies or other sacramental traditions is going to bridge anytime soon. Without getting too esoteric, I think that is the result of mankind's sinfulness, not God's plan. I believe God recognizes one universal (and invisible) church that includes all true followers of Jesus Christ, regardless of denomination.
 
Well, there is that one line in the Nicene Creed that goes "We believe in one holy, catholic, and apostolic church.."
So it is sort of a core Catholic belief that the Catholic Church is the Church, however, I've always known a mission of the Catholic Church to be reuniting all Christians... especially considering all (I think) other Christian denominations originated from the Catholic Church. Being Christian in general is great, but the Catholic Church believes that all of the beliefs that go along with the Church make up the true path.
 
Skyh13 said:
I've always known a mission of the Catholic Church to be reuniting all Christians... especially considering all (I think) other Christian denominations originated from the Catholic Church. Being Christian in general is great, but the Catholic Church believes that all of the beliefs that go along with the Church make up the true path.
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Sometime you gotta point out a Catholic church that's interested in uniting all denominations. That's a new one by me... Seems like every time I've witnessed a conversation along these lines, the Catholics typically claim that they are the one and only correct way and everyone else is stupid for thinking otherwise. Maybe I've had the misfortune of seeing only bad apples, but I've never experienced anything like what you're suggesting.

The idea that Catholics think all denominations came from them is a new one on me, too. From a certain standpoint, I suppose it's true, but only in the sense that America "originated" from the United Kingdom and the Ukraine "originated" from the USSR. However, I don't agree with the Vatican's stance on the issue- my beliefs are that the physical practices of Catholicism are wholly unnecessary for my salvation. I don't need to say thirty-seven Hail Marys in order to have my sins forgiven. If Catholics want to, fantastic- that's part of your faith. But it's not part of mine for a reason- we don't think it's needed.
 
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Skyh13 said:
Well, there is that one line in the Nicene Creed that goes "We believe in one holy, catholic, and apostolic church.."
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depends on the use of the word catholic.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
cath·o·lic
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thinsp.png
/ˈkæθ
thinsp.png
ə
thinsp.png
lɪk, ˈkæθ
thinsp.png
lɪk/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kath-uh-lik, kath-lik]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation–adjective 1.broad or wide-ranging in tastes, interests, or the like; having sympathies with all; broad-minded; liberal. 2.universal in extent; involving all; of interest to all. 3.pertaining to the whole Christian body or church.
 
What it still comes down to is God will judge you by what you do with your life. I know some Catholics that would go to hell before most protestants/Jews/Muslims/etc. would.
 
Skyh13 said:
Well, there is that one line in the Nicene Creed that goes "We believe in one holy, catholic, and apostolic church.."
So it is sort of a core Catholic belief that the Catholic Church is the Church,
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In the Nicene Creed it's "catholic" with a lower-case c. It's not refering to the Catholic Church. It just means a belief in one universal church.

Edit: Looks like johnsonjj beat me to it.
 
johnsonjj said:
depends on the use of the word catholic.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
cath·o·lic
premium.gif
thinsp.png
/ˈkæθ
thinsp.png
ə
thinsp.png
lɪk, ˈkæθ
thinsp.png
lɪk/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kath-uh-lik, kath-lik]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation–adjective 1.broad or wide-ranging in tastes, interests, or the like; having sympathies with all; broad-minded; liberal. 2.universal in extent; involving all; of interest to all. 3.pertaining to the whole Christian body or church.
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You're exactly right. Doesn't the Catholic Church as we know it refer to itself, or was formerly the Roman Catholic Church? In that sense, they created that name to reinforce that they were a representation of all the churches in the Roman empire. Somewhere along the line, that distinction was lost when suddenly there was a new kind of church ran by Protestants that threatened their way of doing things.

So when the Nicene Creed refers to a catholic church, it refers to all churches, and not the one run in Vatican City.
 
And this is another fine example of the greatness of old white guys telling everyone else they're going to hell for being different. Pope Benedict, here's a giant thumbs up for once again showing the incompetence of organized churches!
 
AirWalke said:
You're exactly right. Doesn't the Catholic Church as we know it refer to itself, or was formerly the Roman Catholic Church? In that sense, they created that name to reinforce that they were a representation of all the churches in the Roman empire. Somewhere along the line, that distinction was lost when suddenly there was a new kind of church ran by Protestants that threatened their way of doing things.

So when the Nicene Creed refers to a catholic church, it refers to all churches, and not the one run in Vatican City.
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That's more or less correct. Without making this more complicated than necessary, the "Roman" in the name of the Roman Catholic Church refers to those Catholic churches that recognize the Bishop of Rome (the office we more commonly refer to as "the Pope") as the head of Christendom. This includes several Catholic churches (such as the Maronite Catholic Churches of the Middle East) that have different liturgical traditions from the Church in Rome, but are still in full communion with the Roman Catholic Church (i.e., recognize the primacy of the Pope).

There are also several independent churches that call themselves the "Catholic" church, but are not in communion with Rome. These include the "Old Catholic Church," which broke away from Rome in the late 1800's over the issue of papal infallibility, the Polish National Catholic Church, and several other independent churches that typically practice a heavily liturgical worship service but don't recognize the Bishop of Rome as the head of their church.
 
Skyh13 said:
Well, there is that one line in the Nicene Creed that goes "We believe in one holy, catholic, and apostolic church.."
So it is sort of a core Catholic belief that the Catholic Church is the Church, however, I've always known a mission of the Catholic Church to be reuniting all Christians... especially considering all (I think) other Christian denominations originated from the Catholic Church. Being Christian in general is great, but the Catholic Church believes that all of the beliefs that go along with the Church make up the true path.
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Excuse me but you are wrong here. All Christian denominations did not originate from the Catholic Church. Are you trying to tell me that the Eastern Orthodox (Greek, Russian, etc.) Church originated from the Catholic Church? No way Jose! Do you recall the Great Schism (1066 AD I believe) when THE Church split into Eastern & Western? The Eastern Church had Constantinople as its headquarters while the Western Church had Rome. The Eastern Orthodox Church basically has remained the same (no change in dogma, beliefs, etc.) over the centuries while the West split again into Catholics and Protestants.

Thus, to say that all Christian denominations originated from the Catholic Church is not at all correct. If you had stated that all Protestant denominations originated from the Catholic Church you would have been correct.

BTW, the word "catholic" in the Nicene Creed simply means universal. The Eastern Orthodox Church, I believe has the exact same Nicene Creed. However, I am not positive about this. There may be a minor difference about the Holy Trinity.
 
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NEPatriotscy said:
Excuse me but you are wrong here. All Christian denominations did not originate from the Catholic Church. Are you trying to tell me that the Eastern Orthodox (Greek, Russian, etc.) Church originated from the Catholic Church? No way Jose! Do you recall the Great Schism (1066 AD I believe) when THE Church split into Eastern & Western? The Eastern Church had Constantinople as its headquarters while the Western Church had Rome. The Eastern Orthodox Church basically has remained the same (no change in dogma, beliefs, etc.) over the centuries while the West split again into Catholics and Protestants.

Thus, to say that all Christian denominations originated from the Catholic Church is not at all correct. If you had stated that all Protestant denominations originated from the Catholic Church you would have been correct.
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I'm not disagreeing with you, but from the perspective of the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church split from Rome (that is, they ceased to recognize the See of Rome as the universal church's seat of authority). Thus, it could be argued that the Orthodox Church "originated" from the Roman Catholic Church. Regardless, the East and West were part of one Christian fellowship before the schism of 1054.
 
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So I don't have to worry about this since I am Catholic, right? Personally, I don't think the team, er Church you go to determines where you end up. One hour a week of good behavior probably isn't enough, no matter what church you go to. (Unless it is the Catholic Church:biggrin9gp::wink0st:)
 
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