ISU Football

[RedStorm]

Whitey.

"
RedStorm,
I could care less what his faith is. I just don't think that should be the basis by which he, or she, gives their advice. I don't think, by listening to the advice, you should be able to know whether they are Christian, Jewish, Muslim or Buddhist.

If, much like the American demographic, the vast majority of players are Christian, then would they decide to have a bible discussion group? Wouldn't that make the few who practice other faiths feel a little excluded?

I guess that I've always been of the opinion that religion should be an individual experience of faith. If faith is that big a part of a students life, they probably have a pastor, priest or rabbi that they can turn to already."

You arguement is not applicable...

It still is an "individual experience in faith" ....players will not be forced to talk to this guy or be forced to go to any sort of gathering. What he will be is "available" to whoever wants or needs to talk to him. I am sure any sort of bible discussion group will be voluntary, but available. This Pastor will be devoted to the team and individuals that have issues unique to them, but affect the team as a whole. These kids belong to a unique demographic....kids from other states, social backgrounds, are new to the community, and have unique demanding schedules. Other clergy have office hours and cater to the community and are strangers to these kids.....this guy will not be a stranger, won't be clinical like a counselor, which will make the kids more comfortable and the pastor more approachable.

Also, I am sure that arrangements will be made with other clergy so the team pastor can refer one of the kids. if he requests, to a Priest, Minister, Iman, or a Rabbi. Usually, the team pastor will contact the other clergy and set up a referral network and the other clergy will see the kids outside their regular schedule....once again...availability....the kids have a point of contact on the staff and the pastor can make these arrangements....instead of a kid from out of state, with limited time, trying to do it. It is a "win...win" situation for everyone....

 

[cyclonenum1]

This is a great, great idea. Frankly, I'm a little shocked we haven't had one. For those of you concerned, probably 99% (if not 100%) of the team is Christian. My guess is the Chaplain would be a "non-denominational" Christian based type of guy. I'm certain that no one would be forced to attend any sort of sessions. How great would it be to read about some Cyclones attending a Bible Study Group as opposed to reading about them getting arrested for DWI or shoplifting!

 

[Angie]

I'd have to say that the idea of having a "chaplain" bothers me some. I think that a counselor would be a great idea. However, as a public institution, not affiliated with an particular faith, I think that having someone with a religious background is questionable.

I would be afraid of the possibility of alienating members of the football team who practice a non-christian religion, or no religion at all. You don't want to have a member of the staff that can put a divide in team chemistry.

I'd love to hear in exactly what capacity this individual would be associated with the team. I definitely like the idea of a counselor.

I personally tend to agree with this. I think that a counselor is the most appropriate for a state school. There are a ton of specific religious groups and churches on campus and close to campus, and perhaps the counselor could even find some good ones towards which he/she could point athletes of a certain faith.

 

[cyindian]

I agree with Whitey and Angie. Even if 99% of the team is Christian by birth, I don't know how many of them are actually religious.

I understand that no one would be forced to talk to this guy, but it still alienates that one person who might not be in the group. I just don't think that's fair on that one person - however good or bad he maybe.
Plus, like Angie mentioned there are so many religious groups or churches in Ames that any player could use anytime. If they decided to pass that, I don't know what would make them go to this guy.

But, having said that, if a lot of other schools are already doing this successfully, I guess it's not that bad an idea. Hope it works out.

 

[clones_jer]

I agree with Whitey and Angie. Even if 99% of the team is Christian by birth, I don't know how many of them are actually religious.

I understand that no one would be forced to talk to this guy, but it still alienates that one person who might not be in the group. I just don't think that's fair on that one person - however good or bad he maybe.
Plus, like Angie mentioned there are so many religious groups or churches in Ames that any player could use anytime. If they decided to pass that, I don't know what would make them go to this guy.

But, having said that, if a lot of other schools are already doing this successfully, I guess it's not that bad an idea. Hope it works out.

I'm a little baffled by Whitey and Angie, this whole idea of if one person doesn't like it we can't have it is far too prevalent already in our society.

 

[cyclonekj]

For those opposed to this idea, would you object if this person was called a "counselor" instead of "chaplain?" Would you prefer the counselor to be an atheist? Agnostic? Should our other coaches and staff also be godless? I wouldn't discriminate against a counselor of a different religion. In fact, I can't imagine that I would ask for a religious background before accepting somebody's advice.

 

[BugDoc]

GOD BLESS GENE CHIZIK!!!!

 

[jparker22]

GOD BLESS GENE CHIZIK!!!!

And apparently every other football coach. Mac had a chaplain for the team. And I would guess that Walden had one. Most football teams have one at the DI level, and nearly all pro teams do as well.

 

[Cyclonepride]

I agree with Whitey and Angie. Even if 99% of the team is Christian by birth, I don't know how many of them are actually religious.

I understand that no one would be forced to talk to this guy, but it still alienates that one person who might not be in the group. I just don't think that's fair on that one person - however good or bad he maybe.
Plus, like Angie mentioned there are so many religious groups or churches in Ames that any player could use anytime. If they decided to pass that, I don't know what would make them go to this guy.

But, having said that, if a lot of other schools are already doing this successfully, I guess it's not that bad an idea. Hope it works out.

Not to go off on a rant here, but is everybody still harboring the immense pain of getting picked last in kickball? I can't remember ever, in my life, feeling alienated, or maybe I did, and then I got over it.

I am so sick of this whole world view where we don't want anyone to feel uncomfortable about themselves, so we have to remove all standards and morals to make sure of it. Then we sit back and wonder why the world is going to hell, and point the finger at someone else. :angry6wn: :growl5cj: :frown3qg:

 

[jdoggivjc]

Next thing you know the military's either gonna lose their "chaplains" or have them renamed "counselors" because "chaplains" is too offensive.

Quite honestly, political correctness is one of the biggest plagues in modern society. Everyone always has to walk on a thread to make sure that they don't say anything that might be misconstrued and become offensive. What the hell happened to freedom of speech?

Since we're so worried about not offending anyone, why is it that no one cares that political correctness is offensive to me? Must be because I'm a married, white, Christian, conservative American male with a decent job making a decent living (in other words, I'm in the majority). I guess I'm just politically incorrect by definition...

 

[bmuff]

A Chaplin that's also a S&C coach - wow. That makes 2 S&C coaches if this goes thru. Does Chizik know how to line them up... Twice as strong physically and strong spiritually - no one's gonna push us over this year! :yes4lo:

Actually, that would make 4 S&C coaches. Sheppard has two full-time, paid assistants.

 

[jmb]

GC acknowledged that every team has a chaplian, this however would be different. This guys is going to be with the team anytime they are together lifitng,team meetings etc. Not someone there on game day, but regularly.

j

 

[Klubber]

I think the question here is, "Why does someone serving in this role (chaplain or counseler, etc.) have to be associated with a certain religion?"

A Christian team chaplain would be no better able to help a player than a non-religious team counselor. And, with our players coming from all walks of life and cultural and religious backgrounds, I think a team counselor without a specific religious denomination would be a better choice.

 

[Klubber]

If our coaches were as you say,"godless", would they be less capable of doing their jobs?

While a coach's religion of choice or lack thereof may matter to those who share the same, it doesn't mean jack squat when it comes to W's and L's, or developing young men as quality student athletes.

 

[cyclonekj]

I think the question here is, "Why does someone serving in this role (chaplain or counseler, etc.) have to be associated with a certain religion?"

A Christian team chaplain would be no better able to help a player than a non-religious team counselor. And, with our players coming from all walks of life and cultural and religious backgrounds, I think a team counselor without a specific religious denomination would be a better choice.

Only the people who have been against this are suggesting that the chaplain would be pushing Christianity. It is possible to give advice based on one's religious beliefs without forcing those beliefs on the receiver of said advice.

What specifically are you asking for in "someone without a specific religious denomination?" A non-religious person? Please help me understand your viewpoint.

I disagree that a non-religious person is as well-equipped as a religious person to council others, but that's another topic for another day.

 

[RedStorm]

This is a trained guy, he knows football and problems football players have, to may people are hung up on the religion thing. And counselors are no good....they are to clinical and can't relate to the players. The "key" issue here is the guy is going to be part of the team and the players will be comfortble approaching him....that is the key issue.

 

[cyclonekj]

If our coaches were as you say,"godless", would they be less capable of doing their jobs?

While a coach's religion of choice or lack thereof may matter to those who share the same, it doesn't mean jack squat when it comes to W's and L's, or developing young men as quality student athletes.

Character affects success and there is a correlation between character and faith. It's not impossible to have one without the other, but there is a relationship between the two.

 

[herbiedoobie]

The problem with "counselors" is that they have absolutely no moral foundation to make their advice genuine. And kids aren't as stupid as adults, and realize that nearly 100% of what comes out of "counselors'" mouths is b.s. Without recognizing a basic moral foundation, a murderer has the innate right to murder. It's just his/her personal choice of what they find right. Your counselor can help that individual "deal with those feelings", but in the end, if the murderer is convinced in the rightness of their beliefs, they will go out and murder anyway. Someone with a strong moral foundation should be able to take on an individuals' beliefs that are wrong, provided they are courageous.

And, by definition, a "chaplain" cannot be focused on one religion, or proselytize. A "chaplain's" job is to facilitate moral development. And if an individual who happens to be a Wiccan wants help in facilitating a personal crisis within the framework of his/her Wiccan beliefs, the chaplain is obligated to help them in that direction/marry them up with someone of the Wiccan faith to allow that to happen.

I have 25 years experience dealing with chaplains in the military, and have never seen or heard of someone having an issue with it that could not be easily accommodated.

 

[Angie]

I'm a little baffled by Whitey and Angie, this whole idea of if one person doesn't like it we can't have it is far too prevalent already in our society.

To be clear - I'm not saying this is a horrible idea. And I am Christian - I just don't feel that everyone else has to be. I just think that having a person who is specifically there to "guide" people who preaches only to one line of faith is a little too specific. I think it's great to encourage the faith of the team, and to use it to mold them into honorable young men - I just think that someone doing it should withhold their own faith as a factor. There are so very many different resources on campus already for specific denominations - as I said before, it would be perfectly appropriate to work closely with those organizations.

For those opposed to this idea, would you object if this person was called a "counselor" instead of "chaplain?" Would you prefer the counselor to be an atheist? Agnostic? Should our other coaches and staff also be godless? I wouldn't discriminate against a counselor of a different religion. In fact, I can't imagine that I would ask for a religious background before accepting somebody's advice.

I actually do think a "counselor" is a good idea - and, as I said, I'm not opposed to the idea of a chaplain. I don't think that the individual's personal faith (whether "chaplain" or "counselor") matters - I think what is presented to the team does. These boys have families of their own that have raised them in certain faiths - if I were Muslim or Jehovah's Witness, I would probably be uncomfortable with this idea. A lot of this depends on if the chaplain is actively seeking out the boys to guide/advise them, or if he/she is letting them come to him (as a "counselor" generally would). I am not criticizing Coach or questioning anything - merely voicing an opinion that I think a lot of people would have.

Like I said - I think that this is a very interesting idea, I just think that it could be implemented in a more universal way. This isn't a slight against anyone or their beliefs.

 

[Wesley]

Hire a counseler who is also a chaplain. He can be either /or. I think the bball team needs him also.