The mother of all NFL “talentâ€￾ reports per conference…

[cmhawks99]

Actually just the SEC, Big 12 and Big 10 because lets be honest, we don’t care about the others………:biggrin:


Couple notes 1st off…………………

These are pre-camp rosters including “rookie” Free Agents, many of which will eventually be cut. Also I think it is interesting to note that some teams do a better job of producing talent despite their overall records year to year. Nobody produces more talent every year than Georgia, and although they are always solid they haven’t won an NC in almost 30 years. Showing there is a whole lot more to it all then coaching & talent. As an aside San Diego St who I counted just because they are often referred to as the sleeping giant in college football has 22 alumni yet they haven’t sniffed a winning record in years.

Tenn is still rolling kids into the NFL at an alarming rate despite finishing sub.500 twice in the last 4 years. QB probably being their biggest failing of late, which also shows the importance of the QB position no matter how much other talent you may have. See Big 10 or the NFL for that matter.

You can still win quite a bit with a good coach and a good system despite under whelming over all talent. See Texas Tech, Northwestern KU, Mizzou……

Finally the Big 10 has been very QB poor of late and they have grossly underachieved as a result despite lots and lots of NFL talent. Also there is a huge gap in the Big 12 between the talent rich and talent poor. The SEC has 415 which = 34.59 NFLers per team, Big 10 has 352 = 32 & the Big 12 has 292 = 24.33 per team


The top tier studs 40 plus Nflers and more………….

Georgia…57
LSU…….57
Mich……50
tOSU…..50
Texas…...48
PSU…….45
Florida….44
Tenn……44
Nebbie….41
OU……..40
Aub…….40


These teams are top 20 producers of NFL talent year after year, and the Big 12 is conspicuously missing from this level.

Wisco….38
Iowa……34
Purdue…33
Bama…..31
Ole Miss..30
MSU……30


Still pretty talented from year to year…………..

A&M…..28
Sth Car…28
Miss St…27
CU……..27
Illini……27
Ark…….25
K-st……25


These teams prove it doesn’t always have all that much to do with talent as several of them win a lot.

Okie St…18
Minne…..18
Mizzou….17
Vandy…..16
Kent…….16
NW…….15
TT………14
KU……..12
Bay……..12
Ind………12
ISU……..11

There are some more anomalies or interesting breakdowns but I’d like to 1st let people have their own feedback.


Chad

 

[cmhawks99]

I haven’t counted up all positions yet and I also didn’t investigate whether some of the DE’s where hybrid OLB’s coming in. Therefore it could skew some of the numbers, but I counted all DE’s and DT’s as D-linemen. Also I counted players from the top 7 teams per conference (might do more later) and I stopped at 7 because the SEC & Big 10 both had 7 teams that had at least 30 plus NFLers.

Obviously as many of us had thought the SEC has a bunch of stud D-linemen on camp rosters………………

SEC……………71
Big 10……….52
Big 12……….47

For Lbers the Big 10 had quite a few more which will surprise some people I’m sure………………..

Big 10……….42
SEC…………..32
Big 12……….27

Chad

 

[Clones85']

I would expect those numbers change quite a bit in the next 3 to 4 years. Wasn't it about 5 years ago where the SEC and Big 10 had HUGE leads over everyone else?

Do you have numbers on the past 4 to 5 draft classes in the NFL? Or guys from the past 5 years that are in the NFL? I know you are up to the challenge Chad!

 

[cmhawks99]

I would expect those numbers change quite a bit in the next 3 to 4 years. Wasn't it about 5 years ago where the SEC and Big 10 had HUGE leads over everyone else?

Do you have numbers on the past 4 to 5 draft classes in the NFL? Or guys from the past 5 years that are in the NFL? I know you are up to the challenge Chad!

Actually not true, I have watched this for 5 years and it is pretty constant. In fact about 4 years ago the Big 12 was a little closer, (within 30 with 1 more team) and the SEC was further ahead of the Big 10. The Big 10 closed the gap in recent years. With that said the Big 10 was about dead on players per team with the SEC last year where as the SEC gained about 20 kids on them in the last draft/FA market.

Really though old friend it is you “short sighted” fellas that share this “hope” that the Big 10 is digressing. As I have said to you before the Big 10 was quite young this past year (Iowa alone has several future draft picks on their team) yet still had as many draft picks as the Big 12 with 28. This of course doesn't count rookie FA's which the 1st numbers do

I have told you and told you and told you this is a hobby of mine and I watch it closely while archiving what I find. There isn’t a mysterious down turn of talent in the Big 10. It is fluid and constant. A little up and a little down from year to year and conference to conference.

Where the Big 10 has really sucked of late is at QB and I think we are all beginning to see how important that is.

Chad

 

[Clones85']

Really though old friend it is you “short sightedâ€￾ fellas that share this “hopeâ€￾ that the Big 10 is digressing. As I have said to you before the Big 10 was quite young this past year (Iowa alone has several future draft picks on their team) yet still had as many draft picks as the Big 12 with 28.

I have told you and told you and told you this is a hobby of mine and watch it closely while archiving what I find.

A) Big 10 is 9-20 in Bowl Games the last 4 years. There is no "hope" that the Big 10 is digressing. It is a "fact" that they are. Who is the "short sighted" fella?

B) Let's keep track of the next 2 years of draft classes

3) Is it a hobby or an obsession? Seems to be the latter

 

[Clones85']

Another thing Chad. Do you know how many winning bowl seasons the Big 10 has had in the past 8 years??...............1

Nope that conference is not digressing! I definitely see an upward trend!

 

[cmhawks99]

A) Big 10 is 9-20 in Bowl Games the last 4 years. There is no "hope" that the Big 10 is digressing. It is a "fact" that they are. Who is the "short sighted" fella?

B) Let's keep track of the next 2 years of draft classes

3) Is it a hobby or an obsession? Seems to be the latter

Says you the most biased Big 10 hater I think I may have ever witnessed..............do me a favor and chart the Big 10's QB performances of the last 2 years and you'll have your answer.

Then swap QB's in the Minne-KU game................

The Iowa-South Carolina game.........

The Georgia’-MSU game....................

NW-Mizzou................................

Think it will change the outcomes or scores at least. No other position in college football more directly will change the outcome of a game than QB…..

Not left tackle, nor Lber, nor, nor, nor...................It really isn't that complicated.

I'll eagerly await your rebuttal.

Chad

 

[cmhawks99]

Clones 85’

Ok friend, honestly I know we don’t see eye to eye often but you really need to watch a little more football or give up your bias’. We all have them, but seriously your bitterness towards the Big 10 is overwhelming. Either that or you really are just that daft. I present numbers and you pooh-pooh them. You never refute the stats but rather move on to something else with sleight of hand or complete disregard for that which was presented.

I do have to thank you though as you encourage me to look up different stuff than what I already have. I’m linking a cool graph I found at USA Today. You can adjust it and do whatever.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/draft-history-graphic.htm
　
You’ll find right off the bat that it is fluid as I have mentioned. With SEC on a steady decline since 2001, with a slight up turn in 2007 and again this year. The Big 12 has been wildly up and down with a consistent down turn since 2005 (slight up turn last year, but settling down to equal with the Big 10 this year) and The Big 10 has been slightly down since a high in 2006. They did however plateau and were dead even with the Big 12 this past year and an up turn is as likely as a down turn.

In fact as I have said many a time, College football is very competitive and in fact all 3 conferences are down a tick from recent years. Also as one can see none of them have a strangle hold on talent contrary to the hopes & prayers of many a Big 12 fan.

Finally none of the 3 listed conferences have ever had more than a slow 4 year down turn and I’d say it looks like the Big 10 and Big 12 in particular are heading for up turns.

Sorry old friend.

Chad

 

[Al_4_State]

Clones 85’

Ok friend, honestly I know we don’t see eye to eye often but you really need to watch a little more football or give up your bias’. We all have them, but seriously your bitterness towards the Big 10 is overwhelming. Either that or you really are just that daft. I present numbers and you pooh-pooh them. You never refute the stats but rather move on to something else with sleight of hand or complete disregard for that which was presented.

I do have to thank you though as you encourage me to look up different stuff than what I already have. I’m linking a cool graph I found at USA Today. You can adjust it and do whatever.

NFL draft history: Where the talent comes from - USATODAY.com
　
You’ll find right off the bat that it is fluid as I have mentioned. With SEC on a steady decline since 2001, with a slight up turn in 2007 and again this year. The Big 12 has been wildly up and down with a consistent down turn since 2005 (slight up turn last year, but settling down to equal with the Big 10 this year) and The Big 10 has been slightly down since a high in 2006. They did however plateau and were dead even with the Big 12 this past year and an up turn is as likely as a down turn.

In fact as I have said many a time, College football is very competitive and in fact all 3 conferences are down a tick from recent years. Also as one can see none of them have a strangle hold on talent contrary to the hopes & prayers of many a Big 12 fan.

Finally none of the 3 listed conferences have ever had more than a slow 4 year down turn and I’d say it looks like the Big 10 and Big 12 in particular are heading for up turns.

Sorry old friend.

Chad

On what random statistic are you using? It obviously isn't college football on-field performance. As far as NFL talent, the Big East lead the nation w/ 3.375 draft picks per team last year.

 

[cmhawks99]

On what random statistic are you using? It obviously isn't college football on-field performance. As far as NFL talent, the Big East lead the nation w/ 3.375 draft picks per team last year.

Quite true and that is impressive with 8 teams. All the same they didn’t look terribly strong last year and actually furthers my point. They had 27 picks with 8 teams while the Big 10 had 28/11 and the Big 12 had 28/12. There is a long standing thought/prayer over here that the Big 10 is slowly and surely digressing talent wise and they are an old, slow, out dated conference. Honestly I post this stuff because I think some people are actually interested in knowing things like this. With that said people like Clones 85 and maybe you for all I remember come along and try to take it back down that Big 10 sucks road, and clearly the evidence disputes that. They have NOT been on a slow decline talent wise, at least based on the draft “factsâ€￾ !

The Big 10 still plays the SEC and Big 12 tough and in fact outside of the last 2 years, (terrible QB’s) were still right around .500 plus against the SEC and Big 12 in Bowls if memory serves.

It’s cyclical, plain and simple just as the graph shows.

Chad

 

[Al_4_State]

Quite true and that is impressive with 8 teams. All the same they didn’t look terribly strong last year and actually furthers my point. They had 27 picks with 8 teams while the Big 10 had 28/11 and the Big 12 had 28/12. There is a long standing thought/prayer over here that the Big 10 is slowly and surely digressing talent wise and they are an old, slow, out dated conference. Honestly I post this stuff because I think some people are actually interested in knowing things like this. With that said people like Clones 85 and maybe you for all I remember come along and try to take it back down that Big 10 sucks road, and clearly the evidence disputes that. They have NOT been on a slow decline talent wise, at least based on the draft “factsâ€￾ !

The Big 10 still plays the SEC and Big 12 tough and in fact outside of the last 2 years, (terrible QB’s) were still right around .500 plus against the SEC and Big 12 in Bowls if memory serves.

It’s cyclical, plain and simple just as the graph shows.

Chad

FWIW, the Big East leads all conferences in bowl winning % over the past 3 seasons. They were 3rd last year in pre-season non-conference winning % (I spend too much time w/my Phil Steele mag). This idea that it's a terrible conference is just a product of talking heads on ESPN, and the fact that pre-season pollsters give the teams no respect, which makes it tough for them to crack the top of the BCS.

I don't really think that the Big 10 just sucks, but it's a little worse than Big 12 recently, imo. The Iowa/Iowa State game exemplifies that. This game is close for two reasons
1) The Big 10's style of play does not match well against the way Big 12 teams play.

2) It IS a weaker conference, across the board. Iowa would likely be a 6-6 to 8-4 (at best) team in the Big 12. ISU would probably bounce between 7-5 and 4-8 in the Big 10. The talent gap between the teams isn't as large as people perceive.

Finally, NFL talent doesn't mean much in college. You see sub-par college players succeed right away in the NFL all the time, and great college players fail.

 

[cmhawks99]

Incidentally since 2004 the Big 10 is 9-7 against the SEC, but they are a miserable 7-13 vs. the Big 12 and 6-15 vs. the PAC 10, and 4-5 vs. the ACC. Never let it be said I cherry pick stats.

The Big 12 has a losing record against Big East 5-6, SEC 7-9 and the ACC 7-9, clearly better, but if you take that back to 2000 the Big 10 is 23-17 vs. the Big 12 so clearly it is a cyclical thing. On field scores are not always the best way to determine if a conference is talent poor. The Big 10 has sucked for sure but have still found a way to be plus .500 vs. the SEC.

It isn’t as cut and dried as you guys desperately want it to be.

Once again they have had very poor QB play

Chad

 

[cmhawks99]

FWIW, the Big East leads all conferences in bowl winning % over the past 3 seasons. They were 3rd last year in pre-season non-conference winning % (I spend too much time w/my Phil Steele mag). This idea that it's a terrible conference is just a product of talking heads on ESPN, and the fact that pre-season pollsters give the teams no respect, which makes it tough for them to crack the top of the BCS.

I don't really think that the Big 10 just sucks, but it's a little worse than Big 12 recently, imo. The Iowa/Iowa State game exemplifies that. This game is close for two reasons

1) The Big 10's style of play does not match well against the way Big 12 teams play.

2) It IS a weaker conference, across the board. Iowa would likely be a 6-6 to 8-4 (at best) team in the Big 12. ISU would probably bounce between 7-5 and 4-8 in the Big 10. The talent gap between the teams isn't as large as people perceive.

Finally, NFL talent doesn't mean much in college. You see sub-par college players succeed right away in the NFL all the time, and great college players fail.

1st off this is the spirit of post I'm hoping for. I don't agree, but I see what you are saying...................

Now I have no doubt many ISU fans feel the way you do with Iowa and the Big 12, but it couldn’t be any more erroneous. It is why they spend countless threads trying to disparage the Big 10, because if they succeed in their minds then they can somehow excuse how bad they are and how much better Iowa is.

Although I don’t disagree with your sentiment on NFL talent vs. College talent per se, ask anyone and they’d choose a roster full of NFL talent so it belies the truth honestly. It is true teams that are devoid of NFL talent can win games….see NW, TT etc….but that is why that QB position in college is so important. See Chase & Graham for two guys who likely wont ever be NFL stars yet they were studs in college. That is typically the only position where that happens constantly. Maybe a little bit at Rber as well. Many college duds have indeed gone on to stardom as an NFL Rber.

I feel like this is your attempt at discrediting how far behind ISU and a lot of the Big 12 lags on NFL talent. ISU does not have such a unique style of play that they (the absolute fewest amount of NFLers out of 35 teams) would somehow magically be better in the Big 10. They succeed against Iowa for the same reason that CSU succeeds against CU. It is a rivalry and the rosters are 2ndary. They wouldn’t have that advantage against anyone else in the Big 10.

Chad

 

[cmhawks99]

FWIW, the Big East leads all conferences in bowl winning % over the past 3 seasons. They were 3rd last year in pre-season non-conference winning % (I spend too much time w/my Phil Steele mag). This idea that it's a terrible conference is just a product of talking heads on ESPN, and the fact that pre-season pollsters give the teams no respect, which makes it tough for them to crack the top of the BCS.

I don't really think that the Big 10 just sucks, but it's a little worse than Big 12 recently, imo. The Iowa/Iowa State game exemplifies that. This game is close for two reasons
1) The Big 10's style of play does not match well against the way Big 12 teams play.

2) It IS a weaker conference, across the board. Iowa would likely be a 6-6 to 8-4 (at best) team in the Big 12. ISU would probably bounce between 7-5 and 4-8 in the Big 10. The talent gap between the teams isn't as large as people perceive.

Finally, NFL talent doesn't mean much in college. You see sub-par college players succeed right away in the NFL all the time, and great college players fail.

What people and how do you figure.....................34 NFL alumni to 11 is a pretty Big gap. Better yet how many do you think Iowa has right now compared to what ISU has. Tell me it doesn’t matter and ISU can easily win any way and I’m right there with you, but clearly the talent gap is there.

Chad

 

[Clones85']

Big 10 bias?

They are 9-20 Chad! That isn't a bias, that is a fact.

Even Ohio St grad (Kirk H) says that the Big 10 has been weak. 90% of the sports media says the same thing.

You can take all the stats you want, but I will take the most important ones. W's!!!! And the Big 10 is severely lacking W's lately.

 

[MontyBurns]

What people and how do you figure.....................34 NFL alumni to 11 is a pretty Big gap. Better yet how many do you think Iowa has right now compared to what ISU has. Tell me it doesn’t matter and ISU can easily win any way and I’m right there with you, but clearly the talent gap is there.

Chad

Those alums came from ISU and Iowa teams between 1999 and today. If the talent gap is so big (34-11), why is Iowa 4-7 against such an "inferior" opponent in that time? And how do all these wonk-like stats about which conference has more NFL bench players change the fact that Big 10 teams get blown away in bowl game after bowl game, and why does the Big 10 so consistently put up losing records against other BCS conferences year after year?

 

[RayShimley]

Dang it Clones85!!! I was hoping he would reach the 4 posts in a row mark. That would really be impressive/desperate.

 

[Clones85']

Those alums came from ISU and Iowa teams between 1999 and today. If the talent gap is so big (34-11), why is Iowa 4-7 against such an "inferior" opponent in that time? And how do all these wonk-like stats about which conference has more NFL bench players change the fact that Big 10 teams get blown away in bowl game after bowl game, and why does the Big 10 so consistently put up losing records against other BCS conferences year after year?

Monty why would you use logic when debating with Chad?!?! That doesn't make any sense. You are obviously biased towards the Big 12

 

[Clones85']

Dang it Clones85!!! I was hoping he would reach the 4 posts in a row mark. That would really be impressive/desperate.

Ha sorry! I called him obsessed (which 4 straight short novel posts later proved to be true) and he got kinda mad. Oh well

 

[Al_4_State]

What people and how do you figure.....................34 NFL alumni to 11 is a pretty Big gap. Better yet how many do you think Iowa has right now compared to what ISU has. Tell me it doesn’t matter and ISU can easily win any way and I’m right there with you, but clearly the talent gap is there.

Chad

The bottom line is that the College game and the Pro game are different. ISU had fared well against Iowa over the past 11 years, and I can't tell if you're trying to boast Iowa's superiority or what, but your posts continue to skirt the fact that Iowa does not play well against ISU (or the Big 12) under Ferentz.

ISU fans do not need to slam the Big 10 to feel good about ourselves. We play a Big 10 team every single year, and over the past 11 years we've done better against that Big 10 team from a winning % percentage standpoint than we have almost anyone in our own conference. What does that tell us? Iowa produces more NFL talent, but I'm telling you right now that it doesn't mean that much in the College game. For example, Iowa has produced more NFL talent than Northwestern over the past 15 years, but Northwestern has more conference titles. Furthermore, when ISU has beaten Iowa, we've rarely gone on to have a worse season. Only in 2002 and 2007 has this happened. I'm not sure if you're trying to be a jerk and tell us how much ISU sucks, or if you're being serious, but this Hawk smack on our own site gets really, really old.