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Why do second basemen win MVPs?

OnlyCyclones

OnlyCyclones

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2017
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It's weird that second basemen have more MVPs than shortstops (16 to 15, second most among infielders behind first base, thanks Wikipedia). They play second because they don't have the arm for short. Stereotypical second basemen are high average, but low power hitters. The Altuves and Pedroias don't fit in a clear baseball archetype if you consider that they aren't even playing short. They don't hit for power, and they also aren't elite defensively (elite second basemen, but they don't play shortstop...) So why do second basemen win so many MVPs? Am I undervaluing their hitting relative to more defensive positions?
 
cycloneG said:
Is this I the right forum or is it a metaphor about basketball?
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Not a metaphor, someone mentioned MVP second baseman and the hamster wheel in my head started turning. But there's probably a Georges Niang being the real MVP metaphor in there somewhere.
 
BoxsterCy said:
Going to be an outfielder this year in AL, probably Betts or Trout if they stay healthy.
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I followed MLB a lot more five years ago than I do now, but I never would have guessed Mookie Betts would one day be in an MVP conversation. Really fun player.

What happened to Jackie Bradley Jr. this year? Saw him at the CWS in 2010. Was amazing in college.
 
OnlyCyclones said:
It's weird that second basemen have more MVPs than shortstops (16 to 15, second most among infielders behind first base, thanks Wikipedia). They play second because they don't have the arm for short. Stereotypical second basemen are high average, but low power hitters. The Altuves and Pedroias don't fit in a clear baseball archetype if you consider that they aren't even playing short. They don't hit for power, and they also aren't elite defensively (elite second basemen, but they don't play shortstop...) So why do second basemen win so many MVPs? Am I undervaluing their hitting relative to more defensive positions?
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I would guess that it has something to do with shortstops historically being mostly there for defense and not exactly for their bats. Really it’s only the pst 20ish years where shortstop became a position that true weapons at the plate, especially the power side of things.
 
There are 30 teams and more than 30 great defensive infielders. SS is always the best defensive player, which leaves the base positions. So where does a great defensive player go?

First is a power hitting left- hander, so nope. 3rd is typically a power hitter because that throw to first is long, so arm strength is paramount. That leaves 2nd base. And its rare the best defensive player is also the best hitter, so that leaves 2nd base as a likely candidate for MVP.
 
I would give the mvp to the player that stood still for the most hours on the field. #bowlersareathletes
 
This isn't your dad's game anymore. Second basemen have become key offensive contributors over the last 20 years. Look around the league. You've got Altuve, Cano, Gleyber Torres, Pedroia (in the twilight of his career now), Daniel Murphy, Javy, Brian Dozier, Ozzie Albies, Roughned Odor. The position used to be for the guy with the great glove, and could handle the bat well in the 2/7/8 spots (good bunter, contact hitter). Not anymore.

Altuve doesn't hit a ton of home runs, but that doesn't mean he's weak in the power department. He hit 24 homers in his MVP season with 39 doubles (top 10 in the AL) and finished with a .547 slugging% (6th in the AL). His slash line was .346/.410/.547, which was good for a 160 wRC+ (3rd in the AL). And he was the best player on the best team, which always helps in MVP voting.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: 247cy
Rightly noted that 2B is usually more of a hitter and balanced player than SS. But I think 2B is usually a little older guy, more experience, and more of a leader. That name recognition along with the intangibles is probably a factor as well.

It's also possible 16 to 15 is statistically insignificant. Because it is.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: VeloClone, cyhiphopp, DeereClone and 1 other person
I was just comparing two 2B then happened to see this thread. What do you guys think of Ozzie Albies vs Javier Baez for NL All Star Starter this season so far?

Baez:
BA: .270
HR: 14
3B: 5
2B: 10
RBI: 43 (1st in NL)
SLG: .564
TB: 119
SB: 8
Runs: 35

Albies:
BA: .263
HR: 14
3B: 2
2B: 16
RBI: 35
SLG: .506
TB: 129 (1st in NL)
SB: 6
Runs: 49 (1st in NL)
 
Last edited:
HFCS said:
I was just comparing two 2B then happened to see this thread. What do you guys think of Ozzie Albies vs Javier Baez for NL All Star Starter this season so far?

Baez:
BA: .267
HR: 13
3B: 5 (1st in NL)
2B: 10
RBI: 43 (1st in NL)
SLG: .553
TB: 114
SB: 7
Runs: 33

Albies:
BA: .273
HR: 14
3B: 2
2B: 16
RBI: 35
SLG: .527
TB: 129 (1st in NL)
SB: 6
Runs: 49 (1st in NL)

*Maybe I should add Albies has 39 more at bats in 7 more games, that probably makes the HR and TB a bit of a wash. The Cubs have played 3 less games than the Braves.
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Can't go wrong either way, but I'd give Albies a slight edge. His offensive numbers are right there, and his defense has actually been better by the metrics (small sample size alert, obviously). I love Javy and wouldn't trade him for anyone at the position. But I think Albies is a bit more deserving right now.
 
2nd basemen are better hitters than they used to be, and even the ones who hit for average, usually score a lot of runs or run well enough to steal bases. They are usually good all around offensive players and then defense is just a plus on top of that.
 
tm3308 said:
Can't go wrong either way, but I'd give Albies a slight edge. His offensive numbers are right there, and his defense has actually been better by the metrics (small sample size alert, obviously). I love Javy and wouldn't trade him for anyone at the position. But I think Albies is a bit more deserving right now.
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Batting is close enough that when I originally typed it Albies had a slight edge, two games later I updated today and Baez now has a slight edge. Albies is leading the NL in at bats which makes it more impressive that Javy has produced as much or more.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: VeloClone
Simple.

As a former second baseman, it's a well know and documented scientific fact that short stops are dummies. All second basemen know they have to think more and are responsible for more on the field than their mouth breathing counter part. This translates into a better depth of baseball IQ, and eventually leads to advantages on offense due to heightened mental powers.
 
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