ISU v. Creighton BBALL

[bleedcardinalandgold]

Hey all -

I was just at Court with a buddy of mine (we're both attorneys) and both Creighton law school grads. I grew up in Ames and my first love in all things sports is of course - ISU. (He attended Creighton for undergrad as well).

Anyway, after Court on the way back to the office, he and I got into an argument about Creighton basketball v. ISU basketball. I of course argued that ISU has a much better overall program. His argument was that Creighton has been much more consistent over the past 5-10 years in getting to the NCAA tournament. While is may be true, I argued that Creighton has never gotten out of the 1st round of the tournament during those years. ISU (when we go to the tourney) routinely makes it out of the 1st round.

We also argued about whether Creighton gets the types of high quality recruits that ISU obtains. He argued that Creighton does regularly get it using P'Allen Stinnett, a former ISU recruit who ended up a Creighton after Wayne Morgan's departure, as an example. On average, this may be true, but I argued Creighton will never pull in a Craig Brackins type recruit.

We both agreed we would like to see a Creighton-ISU game happen more often. He argued that Mac is "afraid to play Creighton" because Altman owned him while at Northern Iowa and because Creighton is a quality mid-major who might beat ISU and hurt there tournament hopes. I argued that ISU played Bradley last year. . . yada yada yada.

This may be a pointless thread. What are you thoughts?

 

[Bader]

I think putting Creighton on our schedule routinely is a great idea. Nebraska tore them up with Maric this last season, and I think we could have a lot of success against them. While Altman may have done well against GMac at UNI, Greg will be able to pull better talent in here. I think playing Creighton would be great for our RPI and I always like to see us play other Midwest teams.

 

[psycln11]

My thoughts are screw Creighton!!!

They had a player that undercut Grayer on a fast break. If I remember correctly, Grayer missed a game or two afterwards.

When Creighton returned to Hilton the following year, said player was welcomed with loud course of BOOOS everytime he touched the ball.

 

[keepngoal]

A couple things come to mind.

1) RPI of schedule
2) End of season rankings
3) If not head to head.. gotta use the tourney. years they made it and we didn't, they were better (and visa versa). Years we both made it, who went further or the higher seed wins.
4) back to back conference champs, in the bigXII.
5) How many times have they beat Kansas ... let alone at the Phog?

4/5 years we win this argument the last 10 years. History of the programs i would think ISU, hands down. Let him continue to talk the smack... but be ready in 2 years when you won't have an argument, but a case full of trophies!!

-keep.

 

[brianhos]

I would love to play creighton. Good quality non conference games are always good.

 

[trevn]

Creighton is a good solid program. They've benefited greatly from stability in their head coaching position in the last 13 years. The same can't be said for us. We've gone through Floyd, Eustachy, Morgan, and are now on Mac. That's our 4th coach in a decade and that can't be good for stability.

As far as talented recruits coming in, I'd say we're even. Creighton hasn't pulled in a Fizer or Brackins type recruit (McDonald's AA or very highly touted recruits), but they've been solid and developed talent. We've had some lean years recruiting, again mostly due to coaching turnover and program stability. In my mind, Creighton has been consistent whereas we've been all over the place in recruiting. We've had great years and then we've had terrible years recruiting.

I think we're in a better conference, no doubt. I know the MVC has become very good the past few years, but I still think the Big 12 is on a different level. Top to bottom there is more talent in the Big 12. The MVC is very good though.

I say bring on the Bluejays! It would be a fun series and I'd definitely travel to Ames or Omaha to see the game.

 

[dinger]

i say add them to the schedule every year. why not have a western rivalry too? heck replace drake with them. i dont think GMac would be scared of playing them. even if altman did beat up on UNI (im not sure of series record), UNI didnt have brackins, lucca, diante, etc etc.

 

[BryceC]

I could be mistaken, but I believe McD has stated he has no desire to play Creighton. Creighton has done a great job making the tournament and especially winning the Mo Valley tourney, but as you said, they have made zero noise once they get there. I do however think they have made it to the second round once, in 2002, correct me if I'm wrong.

I think Creighton is a very strong program right now, and with the exception of SIU they are the premier program in the MVC. However, the assertation that they are getting the same level of recruit ISU is a lie if you look at recruiting rankings. The have only signed 3 top 150 kids since they have been ranked - Miles, who transferred, Walker and Stinnett. A huge number of the kids they have signed were unranked. They got huge value out of them but their recruiting is not on par with ISU. Period.

 

[HandSanitizer]

I think once Mac has 1-2 more years of his players coming in...your guys will be retracting his comments. We basically played in the national championship game in 2000 on MSU home court and Creighton has been consistantly one and done. We have a total devistation to our program the last few years so we will be fine once we get back on our feet.

 

[joepublic]

My thoughts are screw Creighton!!!

They had a player that undercut Grayer on a fast break. If I remember correctly, Grayer missed a game or two afterwards.

When Creighton returned to Hilton the following year, said player was welcomed with loud course of BOOOS everytime he touched the ball.

Exactly. Grayer was never the same after that. And it was a stone cold cheap shot. We should never schedule them again, unless all games are at Hilton.

 

[BryceC]

I never heard that thing about Grayer, that sucks.

The only time I got in a scuffle at the Rec was when somebody undercut me. That crap just ain't cool.

 

[Steve]

I'm pretty sure that the undercutting of Grayer was done by a Tony Barone coached team - enuf said. Altman's teams play hard, but seem to avoid the cheap shots.

 

[9seven]

I could be mistaken, but I believe McD has stated he has no desire to play Creighton. Creighton has done a great job making the tournament and especially winning the Mo Valley tourney, but as you said, they have made zero noise once they get there. I do however think they have made it to the second round once, in 2002, correct me if I'm wrong.

I think Creighton is a very strong program right now, and with the exception of SIU they are the premier program in the MVC. However, the assertation that they are getting the same level of recruit ISU is a lie if you look at recruiting rankings. The have only signed 3 top 150 kids since they have been ranked - Miles, who transferred, Walker and Stinnett. A huge number of the kids they have signed were unranked. They got huge value out of them but their recruiting is not on par with ISU. Period.

Actually Walker ended up just outside the Rivals top 150 when the final rankings came out. Not nitpicking, but he was obviously very highly regarded and i would of loved to have him at ISU!

 

[Bobber]

Creigton's a 900 pound Gorilla in the MVC, and they draw a Big 12 school crowd, but ultimately the lack of real competition in their conference hurts them when they make it to the Big Dance. Granted the MVC may be better than it used to be, but it's still no Big12.

I'd argue ISU has a tremendous program when it can do what it has with all the turn over and problems. Since Johnny Orr left in 1994 we've gone through 3 coaches in 12 years.

This is a classic apples to oranges comparison.

 

[darts180]

I'm pretty sure that the undercutting of Grayer was done by a Tony Barone coached team - enuf said. Altman's teams play hard, but seem to avoid the cheap shots.

Ehhhh.....having been at a few UNI Creighton games, I wouldn't say they don't push the boundries. But Dana is king of the MVC, and it's tough to get any calls, even when you are at home against them.

I like Dana, and Greg has definitely come up on the short end of their matchups. That being said, I think that Creighton would be a terrific rivalry game for us.

Plus most of the a$$hole kNU football fans are Creighton hoops fans, so we could gain some revenge there the years we beat them.

 

[chrishull14]

I think we should play all of our recruiting opponents on a regular basis. Maybe it isn't feasible to play all of them every year, but 2 out of 4-5 years should be sufficient.

Our non-conference schedule should include a rotation of:

Minnesota
Wisconsin
Marquette
Illinois
Southern Illinois
Iowa
UNI
Drake
Missouri State
Creighton

I think we should all expect to be good enough in a few years to beat or be equal with all of these teams. And what better way to show recruits how we compare the others in our area.

 

[jdoggivjc]

I think we should play all of our recruiting opponents on a regular basis. Maybe it isn't feasible to play all of them every year, but 2 out of 4-5 years should be sufficient.

Our non-conference schedule should include a rotation of:

Minnesota
Wisconsin
Marquette
Illinois
Southern Illinois
Iowa
UNI
Drake
Missouri State
Creighton

I think we should all expect to be good enough in a few years to beat or be equal with all of these teams. And what better way to show recruits how we compare the others in our area.

Only comment I've got is Iowa, UNI, and Drake won't be in the "rotation" because they'll be on the schedule every year (IMO the definition of rotation is on the sked one year, off the next. Those three teams we'll be playing every year). Otherwise, I love the idea.

 

[Cyclonepride]

I would love to see Creighton back on the schedule. I went to a game over in Omaha when we played them there, and it was great to see an away game. Lots of ISU fans there. I think they would make a natural rival.

 

[Clone_12]

I too would like to see the series renewed...I don't think we'd be able to get a team with that much success to just play us at Hilton, I think it would have to be a home-away series, but it could turn into a nice little rivalry and an annual solid nonconference opponent...10-15 years ago when we were playing them in omaha, the risk of what a loss to them would do to our tourney resume far outweighed the perks of beating them...but they have definately garnered enough national respect to be considered a quality win now, and it's no longer embarrasing if we lose to them...the same goes with UNI now imo, thanks to McDermott...Drake is another story-although the talent has went up a little there the last couple years.

 

[jdoggivjc]

I too would like to see the series renewed...I don't think we'd be able to get a team with that much success to just play us at Hilton, I think it would have to be a home-away series, but it could turn into a nice little rivalry and an annual solid nonconference opponent...10-15 years ago when we were playing them in omaha, the risk of what a loss to them would do to our tourney resume far outweighed the perks of beating them...but they have definately garnered enough national respect to be considered a quality win now, and it's no longer embarrasing if we lose to them...the same goes with UNI now imo, thanks to McDermott...Drake is another story-although the talent has went up a little there the last couple years.

I was going to say, it's really no longer embarrassing to lose to HALF of the teams in the MVC (Creighton, SIU, Bradley, Missery St, No. Iowa, Wichita St, etc). Then again, losing to the other half is VERY embarrasing.