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Holding Penalties

mcnemat

mcnemat

Member
Mar 6, 2007
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Just curious, I was at the game and witnessed the ramifications of the holding penalties. Overall I thought the Refs did a great job, and FWIW I felt they missed a few block in the backs on some punts (they did call one but missed others).

My question is I never got a good look at the holding penalties, there were a few that they called on the center and then the replay shows him not even close to a defender. Did anyone go back and look at those calls for the holds? Are they legit?
 
If I'm Tom Manning, I'd tell every lineman we have to hold on every single play. We rushed for 51 ******* yards on UNI. We have no chance blocking legally. Make the refs embarrassed to call holds on every single play.
 
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mcnemat said:
Just curious, I was at the game and witnessed the ramifications of the holding penalties. Overall I thought the Refs did a great job, and FWIW I felt they missed a few block in the backs on some punts (they did call one but missed others).

My question is I never got a good look at the holding penalties, there were a few that they called on the center and then the replay shows him not even close to a defender. Did anyone go back and look at those calls for the holds? Are they legit?
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I have a lot of respect for officials. But I thought they were terribly inconsistent. A lot of flags being thrown from 30yds away. I can't remember which ISU lineman was called, but one of the penalties had a UNI LB (Farley) running into the line, our guy 2-hand shoved him to the ground, and was somehow called for holding.

Pass interference situations were poor. If the one they called on Peavy before the half was a penalty, then every other downfield pass to Lazard throughout the game should have been called. Their DB's weren't even making a play on the ball.

They certainly could have called some other things on ISU I'm sure. And a game result should never be blamed on officials. But they do play a factor, and momentum in college football is a big thing. Unfortunately every penalty called on ISU seemed to be a critical mistake in the game.
 
Yeah, their game plan was to legitimately do everything possible to stop Lazard from catching the ball. They were all over him, even on his grabs.
 
After watching a number of games this weekend I have no idea what constitutes PI anymore. I keep thinking "Man, that had to be inference" with no call or thinking "Good play, what's that flag doing out?".

And holding? Seems it could be called on most any play but it is not. Seems a crap shoot. Since we had trouble with it it's likely we now have the "reputation" so look for up to half dozen of those against Iowa. I am establishing the over/under at 4 calls.
 
So the refs are the problem?

Not a ref defender (well, I KINDA am) but I am a conspiracy theorist challenger. Are you hinting that all the bad calls went against us and all the no-calls went to UNI's favor? If it's mere incompetence then the calls even out in a game and a season but if you think there is still a B12 plot against ISU sports being perpetrated via refs in all sports then I'll need to sell you some tin foil.

IMHO, a hold is a hold regardless of whether it leads directly to a 15 yard run or not. If you don't call a hold because it was on the back side of the play, I would make the same argument about off-sides, or false starts if they are on the wrong end of the play. Or PIs or roughing the passer or ANY penalty that didn't have a direct impact on a play.

Dude you need to nut up because we LOST. There are 10 reasons why on the list and the refs probably don't make the cut. OL, DL, QB, Lazard dropped a few passes, LBs took bad lines, DBs missed assignments... THOSE are the reasons we lost the game.
 
All those holding calls definitely had a huge impact on the result of the game IMO. We could not get any drives going because of all these holding calls, and we end up losing by 5 pts.

Now.... it could very well be that our big runs were because we were holding.... I don't know about that.

I know at the game I was extremely ticked when Warren about had his head taken off and there was no call though. The fans all started chanting "BS" after that one. I never did see the replay of that play, was it a facemask or not?
 
clonedude said:
All those holding calls definitely had a huge impact on the result of the game IMO. We could not get any drives going because of all these holding calls, and we end up losing by 5 pts.

Now.... it could very well be that our big runs were because we were holding.... I don't know about that.

I know at the game I was extremely ticked when Warren about had his head taken off and there was no call though. The fans all started chanting "BS" after that one. I never did see the replay of that play, was it a facemask or not?
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I didn't see a replay. I was told that if he didn't grab the facemask, its a legal tackle.
 
clone52 said:
I didn't see a replay. I was told that if he didn't grab the facemask, its a legal tackle.
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From the replay on the big screen, it looked to me like he grabbed the ear hole / underside of the helmet - which is included in a "facemask" penalty. It wasn't entirely clear whether he grabbed the helmet or just smacked it though.
 
SpokaneCY said:
So the refs are the problem?

Not a ref defender (well, I KINDA am) but I am a conspiracy theorist challenger. Are you hinting that all the bad calls went against us and all the no-calls went to UNI's favor? If it's mere incompetence then the calls even out in a game and a season but if you think there is still a B12 plot against ISU sports being perpetrated via refs in all sports then I'll need to sell you some tin foil.

IMHO, a hold is a hold regardless of whether it leads directly to a 15 yard run or not. If you don't call a hold because it was on the back side of the play, I would make the same argument about off-sides, or false starts if they are on the wrong end of the play. Or PIs or roughing the passer or ANY penalty that didn't have a direct impact on a play.

Dude you need to nut up because we LOST. There are 10 reasons why on the list and the refs probably don't make the cut. OL, DL, QB, Lazard dropped a few passes, LBs took bad lines, DBs missed assignments... THOSE are the reasons we lost the game.
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Not blaming the ref's at all, they had nothing to do with the 3 INT's and fumbled Snap. If those don't happen, we win, and I'm still asking the question about the holds.
 
Watching bits and pieces of the replay.

Midway through the second quarter there were two horrible calls.

Just after UNI tied it as 7, Warren ripped of 12 yds on the next play, and 15+ on the play after. The second run was called back on a phantom hold on Philbert. He was engaged, with his hands inside, and after the back passed them the defender fell down and he was flagged. Of course, being 1st and 20, we couldn't dig out and punted.

Just after the punt, there's a 3rd and short where JaQuan Bailey hits the RB in the backfield, he gets away but is stopped short of the first down. Bailey is flagged for a facemask when he didn't touch the helmet at all, he had the front of his jersey.
 
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WIB said:
If I'm Tom Manning, I'd tell every lineman we have to hold on every single play. We rushed for 51 ******* yards on UNI. We have no chance blocking legally. Make the refs embarrassed to call holds on every single play.
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This is what Bob Huggins would do and it seems to work for WV.
 
The next hold was on Bobek, the first play after UNI's fumble. Bobek is pulling out to block on a WR screen to Ryen - and he never touches anybody. Literally didn't touch anyone. As Blum says in the broadcast "not much there Sage".
 
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So it's safe to say we can still HATE BigXII refs. Steaming pile of dog doo doo that office is. Didn't know where they were from but during the second quarter it became obvious that the opposing team did not bring their conference officials. Is there a team in the country that gets worse home officiating than ISU? I highly doubt it.

JP needs to tell the BigXII thanks but no thanks, we will find some MAC officials for our games when possible.
 
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The call on Bobek was a joke. No way was that a block in the back. I'm not even sure he touched anyone. As for the holding call on Philbert, it looked like a great block to me. He dominated the much smaller UNI linebacker and the guy fell to the ground. He didn't pull him down or grab him. It just looked like a great block.

The block in the back on our long punt return looked like it was a block in the back to me, but it was close and it was so far away from the play that it did not have an impact on the play at all. I don't think it should have been called in my opinion.

The turnovers cost us the game, but the penalties sure affected the flow of our offense.
 
The turnovers, outside of the muffed snap, occurred late with ISU starting to panic / press. It should not have been that close. About the only play that I could see that I agreed with the refs was the no pass interference call in the second half, after they did call 1 or 2, that the crowd was upset about. That pass was really under thrown without a lot of contact.
 
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