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Help me understand this!!!

Dryburn said:
There doesn't really have to be a motive. He would be perfectly happy if it did well. It is just that he is not going to put the resources into it (by paying a buy-out to a losing coach and hiring a new one) since it is such a small part of the revenue. Look at it from a purely business standpoint.

I think it is a mistake to let it tank because I think ISU has a better chance of success in conference in basketball than it does in football. It has pretty much always been that way. I think if you let the program tank, you are hurting your overall support for ISU athletics now and in the future. However, I can see a money-first person like JP doing that from a business standpoint.

Also, not many here say anything about it, but I don't see JP staying at ISU forever. He may be more interested in making an immediate impact (which he has) and then moving on to something bigger. MBB may not have a big priority with him because he can still show success in other areas even if it tanks. He may not truly have major concerns about ISU athletics 4 or 5 years down the road. Why would he? At some point he will move on.

If he did not make a move about GMac this year, I don't see him making one in the future......not unless for some reason ISU MBB becomes a bigger priority to him. If donations to the Athletic Department start to drop significantly because of the debacle that ISU MBB has become and is going to continue to be in the future under GMac, then maybe he will make a change. I just don't see that happening. If CPR has any success at all, JP may not need for the ISU MBB program to get better. If they win fine....if they don't.......no big deal. Why allocate resources to it's success? Sucks for those of us that are ISU MBB fans, but there are other schools.
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Good post. I think this is right on the money actually. I underestimated JP's bean-counter mentality. Now that I understand the 6% conversation Deace had with Pollard and the argument Deace was making this morning I agree with you and him. The precedent is set that no negative financial activity can occur for a program that only provides 6% of revenue. Like Deace said, next year when it’s 5.5% the same argument can be made. And the year after. And the year after.

Really by saying that the statement is made that Greg will be here regardless because it’s too expensive to fire him. Which is fine. If that is the case and the fans get frustrated enough the only option will be to stop buying tickets and donating to the point that 6% goes negative or starts to impact football. The impetus has been put on the fans at this point and that’s fine.
 
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Geoffrey should also share in some of the blame for this mess. He hired Pollard and must have been ok with canning Morgan and hiring GMac, as I believe JP got a nice fat raise the first year he was here. Yes JP has raised a lot of money, mainly thru selling hope with new coaches and raising the he!! out of ticket prices and required donations, so nothing genius about those moves. But after selling hope you have to follow thru with good hires, and GMac and Chiz proved to be two of the worst hires in ISU history. This basketball mess and current financial situation preventing us from getting a new coach is squarely on Pollard, and Geoffrey needs to hold him accountable.
 
BryceC said:
Good post. I think this is right on the money actually. I underestimated JP's bean-counter mentality. Now that I understand the 6% conversation Deace had with Pollard and the argument Deace was making this morning I agree with you and him. The precedent is set that no negative financial activity can occur for a program that only provides 6% of revenue. Like Deace said, next year when it’s 5.5% the same argument can be made. And the year after. And the year after.

Really by saying that the statement is made that Greg will be here regardless because it’s too expensive to fire him. Which is fine. If that is the case and the fans get frustrated enough the only option will be to stop buying tickets and donating to the point that 6% goes negative or starts to impact football. The impetus has been put on the fans at this point and that’s fine.
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JP has made the decision to retain GMac. He has no choice but to now spin that position the best way he can. He can no longer sell hope. He can no longer sell the pity story of what a bad hand Greg was dealt. He can no longer sell the "Year One" BS.

He is now adopting the "lowered expectation" approach of "hey -- MBB is only 6% of our budget, so don't sweat how poor we are doing. It would be a waste of $$ on a buyout for something that is a small contributor."

He is effectively neutering MBB and trying to get us to think of it no different than a women's team. Small potatoes, so give me and GMac a pass.

Long fall from the marquee program.
 
Dryburn said:
I understand what you are saying.......but look at it from a business standpoint. The difference between making a move this year and next is $500,000. It costs 2.5 million now plus a new coach, or 2 million next year plus a new coach. Plus, you are going to lose ticket revenue next year because a large majority of your fan base is upset. So if you don't make the move now, why would you make it next year? Your season ticket sales this past year were as high as they have ever been, because people thought there was going to be a good team on the floor. No one is going to be thinking that any more........no matter how much some try to sell it or spin it. So when in the next 4 years is it going to be easier to make the move? When will the conditions be better than they are right now?

Also, keep in mind that the cost of hiring a new coach will go up every year, and I would think the difficulty in attracting a good coach to ISU would become more difficult each year too.
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I think the only problem with what you are saying is your assumption that we won't be able to make the move next year because we won't have the money. If we can bank money without suffering a large loss, than it could be possible. In order to better understand it, I would probably need to know the fluctuation of revenue year to year in basketball. Maybe Pollard has a high level of confidence that his revenue stream has a consistent floor, and doesn't see a lot of impact to the overall budget by waiting more year.

Not to mention, I am winning the lottery tonight. He is probably just waiting for those funds to come in for me so I can give him a large donation.:biggrin:
 
BooneCy said:
I think the only problem with what you are saying is your assumption that we won't be able to make the move next year because we won't have the money. If we can bank money without suffering a large loss, than it could be possible. In order to better understand it, I would probably need to know the fluctuation of revenue year to year in basketball. Maybe Pollard has a high level of confidence that his revenue stream has a consistent floor, and doesn't see a lot of impact to the overall budget by waiting more year.

Not to mention, I am winning the lottery tonight. He is probably just waiting for those funds to come in for me so I can give him a large donation.:biggrin:
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LOL......if you are winning the lottery tonight, send a little my way!

I don't know the finances of the MBB program either.......I just don't see how it is going to get any better in the years to come if GMac is still here.

Ticket revenues are going to be down.....no doubt......unless he pulls off some miracle and starts winning, and that is very unlikely. (Probably less likely than you winning tonight) So, you are still going to have a 2 million dollar buy-out, with less revenue coming in. If you can't pay for it now, how are you going to justify it next year? Maybe JP is counting on football revenues or something being up big time this year, but if the economy in Iowa is like it is in the rest of the country, I don't think you can count on that either. I just don't see any year ahead where things will get better. It is easy to make a case where they will get even worse under GMac, as hard as that may be to believe.
 
Dryburn said:
LOL......if you are winning the lottery tonight, send a little my way!

I don't know the finances of the MBB program either.......I just don't see how it is going to get any better in the years to come if GMac is still here.

Ticket revenues are going to be down.....no doubt......unless he pulls off some miracle and starts winning, and that is very unlikely. (Probably less likely than you winning tonight) So, you are still going to have a 2 million dollar buy-out, with less revenue coming in. If you can't pay for it now, how are you going to justify it next year? Maybe JP is counting on football revenues or something being up big time this year, but if the economy in Iowa is like it is in the rest of the country, I don't think you can count on that either. I just don't see any year ahead where things will get better. It is easy to make a case where they will get even worse under GMac, as hard as that may be to believe.
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Ding ding ding. The more I look at the numbers (being asian and all)... the situation is just as bad next year if you factor in lost revenues from our fans giving up. I'm now afraid this is a full length of contract situation...
 
My memory might be failing me a little bit and im not claiming to be completely accurate, but i do remember him generating a little bit of excitement in trying to move the program forward I also didnt state he did wonderful things, notice how i wasnt specefic and was going from memory. Doesnt mean i was right , it was open for convo... These stupid side arguments, its besides my original point. And yes i do know a thing or 2 about ISU athletics.Good lord... I just wish we could find a way to make the change with our BBALL program...thats all im getting at...
 
mowheat said:
My memory might be failing me a little bit and im not claiming to be completely accurate, but i do remember him generating a little bit of excitement in trying to move the program forward I also didnt state he did wonderful things, notice how i wasnt specefic and was going from memory. Doesnt mean i was right , it was open for convo... These stupid side arguments, its besides my original point. And yes i do know a thing or 2 about ISU athletics.Good lord... I just wish we could find a way to make the change with our BBALL program...thats all im getting at...
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Is this THE Morgan Wheat?
 
mowheat said:
I realize our football program is our "revenue" generator. But doesnt increased excitement in the basketball program feed that beast as well. We have never been "really" good in football like Iowa has been in the past. Dont you want to generate as much revenue as you can. I think letting the Bball program tank doesnt help our football program in any way shape or form. We are already excited about football season however we could easily go 4-8 next year killing some momentum, although i dont think we will. This is what baffles me about the whole Pollard- Deace conversation. Lets get the excitement back at Hilton. That is only going to continue to fuel even more excitement for football. IMO at Iowa State the football and basketball programs go hand in hand and feed off each other somewhat, regardless of one generating most of the revenue. Am i missing something here. Lots of good stuff on this site...curious as to what some more opinions are out there about this idea.
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I think this has as much to do with JP's ego as anything... maybe more so.

First 3 JP hires at ISU
- Chizle (fail)
- Cael (pseudo-fail)
- GMac (I'll abstain)

There's only one of those guys left here, in only 4 years? Given the JP has been seemingly a financial wizard at ISU, given that he's clearly stated ISU is a BBall school, given that the peasants are at the gates with the torches and pitchforks (and as such I'm presuming a good number of people with real $$$ may have opened their checkbooks)- I have to think if JP really wanted to find a way to pay off Mac and move on, he could do it.

That suggests to me that he doesn't want to. Why wouldn't he? On the court has been disappointing ,to put it as mildly as I can. Off the court/post-season has been just downright embarrasing. What's left?

Save face? Not admit defeat and go 3:3?

I'm sure the finances of it are a strong factor. We've paid off coaches who haven't been actually coaching almost regularly over the past 5 years. That has to end.

I really don't think that pure $$$ can explain it alone ......
 
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People are making this much more difficult to understand then what it really is. Deace had lunch with him and laid it out plain as day. Football brings in the most money. BB brings in very little. If you were a multiple business owner and company (A) generates 90% of your income and company (B) generates 6%. Would you waste a huge chunk of your budget to upgrade company (A) to make MORE money or Company (B )that won't make you much more then you allready are? I don't like it but I understand it. And based on that thought process It wouldn't make sense to make a change at all until GM's contract runs out. There is only one way a change will be made with that line of thinking and that is if a donar stepped forward to flip the bill.
 
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BigCojones said:
People are making this much more difficult to understand then what it really is. Deace had lunch with him and laid it out plain as day. Football brings in the most money. BB brings in very little. If you were a multiple business owner and company A generates 90% of your income and company B generates 6%. Would you waste a huge chunck of your budget to upgrade company A to make MORE money or Company B that won't make you much more then you allready are?
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Depends how incompetent the person running B is.
 
azn4cy said:
Ding ding ding. The more I look at the numbers (being asian and all)... the situation is just as bad next year if you factor in lost revenues from our fans giving up. I'm now afraid this is a full length of contract situation...[/QUOTE]

Sadly I think that you are correct. The trend seems to be headed at least two more years or until the buyout reaches a point in which JP beleives that a change will result in enough additional income from increased ticket sales and Hilton Revenue that he can justify firing GMac and hiring someone else. What are the buyout numbers for the remainder of the contract?

I know that after next year it is 2 mill but what about after that?
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BigCojones said:
People are making this much more difficult to understand then what it really is. Deace had lunch with him and laid it out plain as day. Football brings in the most money. BB brings in very little. If you were a multiple business owner and company A generates 90% of your income and company B generates 6%. Would you waste a huge chunck of your budget to upgrade company A to make MORE money or Company B that won't make you much more then you allready are?
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It sounds like they were talking about gross revenue. Was there any discussion of expenses and net revenues?

Certainly FB is the biggest generator of gross revenues but it is also the biggest expenditure of any sport. I'm sure the net revenues after expenses (as opposed to gross revenues) are much closer between FB and MBB.

Having said that, FB will still (and should be) the bell cow...hell it probably always has been.
 
Dryburn said:
There doesn't really have to be a motive. He would be perfectly happy if it did well. It is just that he is not going to put the resources into it (by paying a buy-out to a losing coach and hiring a new one) since it is such a small part of the revenue. Look at it from a purely business standpoint.

I think it is a mistake to let it tank because I think ISU has a better chance of success in conference in basketball than it does in football. It has pretty much always been that way. I think if you let the program tank, you are hurting your overall support for ISU athletics now and in the future. However, I can see a money-first person like JP doing that from a business standpoint.

Also, not many here say anything about it, but I don't see JP staying at ISU forever. He may be more interested in making an immediate impact (which he has) and then moving on to something bigger. MBB may not have a big priority with him because he can still show success in other areas even if it tanks. He may not truly have major concerns about ISU athletics 4 or 5 years down the road. Why would he? At some point he will move on.

If he did not make a move about GMac this year, I don't see him making one in the future......not unless for some reason ISU MBB becomes a bigger priority to him. If donations to the Athletic Department start to drop significantly because of the debacle that ISU MBB has become and is going to continue to be in the future under GMac, then maybe he will make a change. I just don't see that happening. If CPR has any success at all, JP may not need for the ISU MBB program to get better. If they win fine....if they don't.......no big deal. Why allocate resources to it's success? Sucks for those of us that are ISU MBB fans, but there are other schools.
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You must have forgotten the Dirty Thirty teams. Now that was success, pride and integrity. Budget on a shoestring.
 
CykoAGR said:
azn4cy said:
Ding ding ding. The more I look at the numbers (being asian and all)... the situation is just as bad next year if you factor in lost revenues from our fans giving up. I'm now afraid this is a full length of contract situation...[/QUOTE]

Sadly I think that you are correct. The trend seems to be headed at least two more years or until the buyout reaches a point in which JP beleives that a change will result in enough additional income from increased ticket sales and Hilton Revenue that he can justify firing GMac and hiring someone else. What are the buyout numbers for the remainder of the contract?

I know that after next year it is 2 mill but what about after that?
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They call this revenue thing a W-shaped recession. We are in the first half.
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BigCojones said:
That's what I thought for a second but then I saw the BA in Psych and know Morgan is not that smart. He is a Steelers fan though.
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I do understand the money part of it dude......just wishing we could make a change....everything that has transpired with this team the last couple years is wearing on me.... Whats wrong with a psychology degree??? LOL... I was smart enough to get into Vandy...
 
What are the chances that our WBB team sells more season tickets than mens for next year? I thought about the Pirate right here but I'm not sure that I'm being sarcastic, this could really happen.

Can we get a CyBookie on this?
 
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