Does Baylor Cheat?

[mt85]

But isn't that what Baylor did? Went from cellar dweller to a team that just made it in to the NCAA in 2008 (Drew's 5th year), to an NIT runner up, then catching lighting in a bottle with Udoh and making an Elite Eight run. That was a gradual progression over almost a decade and only then did Baylor get noticed by the truly elite players. All the ones prior had warts or weren't all that highly recruited by tradition rich programs. Drew is now the second longest tenured coach in the Big 12, has a decade of building relationships with Texas high school and AAU coaches, but he must be cheating because, well, um, becuase...I mean, it's Baylor. No way they can be successful.

Let me see if I can break this down in turducken terms. Coaches spend a majority of their professional life scouting and recruiting turkeys. During that process, they learn which turkeys are being handled by ducks, and they quickly learn that to land a certain turkey will require a creative exchange of bills with the duck.

If a coach doesn't want to play with the duck they move on from courting the turkey. At the end of the day, the coaches recognize which chicken signs the turkey. That is how they know who is playing the game. They can't prove it with the NCAA, but they know.

 

[Cydkar]

Cool thread.

 

[Clonefan32]

So should no schools be able to rise above their history? Should ISU football never be good? It comes down to hiring the right people.

4 top 50 guys in 9 years is hardly eyebrow raising and it has followed a natural progression over a decade of work and increased success on the court.

Never being good and consistently pulling in elite talent are two different things. I don't think people would accuse Iowa State of cheating if we developed into a good football team. I didn't hear anyone suggesting Kansas was cheating when it had its good couple of years. I would never consider Briles cheating, as he is successful with good recruits, but not blue chippers. You're crazy, however, if you think red flags shouldn't go up when a school with absolutely 0 history and an awful fan base start pulling elite level recruits.

 

[CyLoboClone]

as a valpo alumn, I would be devastated if I found out scott drew had brought in all those europeans by nefarious means when he was assistant to his dad (now dying of cancer) and as head coach before he left for baylor. The guy has always recruited above his conference.

 

[Die4Cy]

I know how this works.

I saw the movie "Blue Chips." tongue:

Blue Chips (1994) - IMDb

 

[Peter]

If Scott Drew's operation was legit, he would be the hottest coaching name in college hoops. Name one other coach who has resurrected a program like Baylor. The UCLA's of the world would be breaking down his door with piles of cash begging him to work his magic. The fact that he is NEVER considered for any coaching vacancy tells you something. Schools know what is going on in Waco.

 

[SWCy13]

Wow this thread makes us look good.

 

[LegendofRodA]

Wow this thread makes us look good.

This. The topic is an interesting one, but seriously? Right after we lose to them? Just pathetic. :skeptical:

 

[baylrballa]

If Scott Drew's operation was legit, he would be the hottest coaching name in college hoops. Name one other coach who has resurrected a program like Baylor. The UCLA's of the world would be breaking down his door with piles of cash begging him to work his magic. The fact that he is NEVER considered for any coaching vacancy tells you something. Schools know what is going on in Waco.

I thought he was a horrible X's and O's coach who's underachieved every year?

now he should be the hottest name in college hoops? can't have it both ways.


Some programs have inquired the past few years, but Drew's recent extension (allegedly for 10 years and a good amount of money) has a buyout that shut down talks quick.

With how he's recruiting in waco, there's not much need to head to a traditional power. His dad was by all accounts an above average coach and chose to stay at Valpo. This is his program to build and shape how he wants, if he wants it (and isn't breaking the rules). Programs like Indiana in the midwest would give me a bit of a scare, since he's from around there. But, seriously, you think his "well, golly-gee" demeanor would fit in at any of the hardcore programs?


All in all, I do like these threads. Never see them after a loss.

 

[Palmer]

I thought he was a horrible X's and O's coach who's underachieved every year?

now he should be the hottest name in college hoops? can't have it both ways.


Some programs have inquired the past few years, but Drew's recent extension (allegedly for 10 years and a good amount of money) has a buyout that shut down talks quick.

With how he's recruiting in waco, there's not much need to head to a traditional power. His dad was by all accounts an above average coach and chose to stay at Valpo. This is his program to build and shape how he wants, if he wants it (and isn't breaking the rules). Programs like Indiana in the midwest would give me a bit of a scare, since he's from around there. But, seriously, you think his "well, golly-gee" demeanor would fit in at any of the hardcore programs?


All in all, I do like these threads. Never see them after a loss.

forget cheating..

We need another thread on your horrible fan support and the problem of cricket noise in your arena...

 

[CloneFan65]

All in all, I do like these threads. Never see them after a loss.

I'm hoping we see threads like this about ISU hoops on other Big 12 boards in the near future.

 

[kingcy]

Never being good and consistently pulling in elite talent are two different things. I don't think people would accuse Iowa State of cheating if we developed into a good football team. I didn't hear anyone suggesting Kansas was cheating when it had its good couple of years. I would never consider Briles cheating, as he is successful with good recruits, but not blue chippers. You're crazy, however, if you think red flags shouldn't go up when a school with absolutely 0 history and an awful fan base start pulling elite level recruits.

There was a lot of talk about how KSU was getting it done.

 

[Peter]

I thought he was a horrible X's and O's coach who's underachieved every year?

now he should be the hottest name in college hoops? can't have it both ways.


Some programs have inquired the past few years, but Drew's recent extension (allegedly for 10 years and a good amount of money) has a buyout that shut down talks quick.

With how he's recruiting in waco, there's not much need to head to a traditional power. His dad was by all accounts an above average coach and chose to stay at Valpo. This is his program to build and shape how he wants, if he wants it (and isn't breaking the rules). Programs like Indiana in the midwest would give me a bit of a scare, since he's from around there. But, seriously, you think his "well, golly-gee" demeanor would fit in at any of the hardcore programs?


All in all, I do like these threads. Never see them after a loss.

Never said he was a bad X's and O's coach. In fact, I'd call him basketball Jesus. I'm not sure Baylor fans even appreciate how improbable their return from the grave really is. This isn't a program like Indiana or UCLA with years of titles and tradition that just needed some tweaking to get moving. This is was program that had zero momentum and had players murdering each other and a coach covering it up. I can't really imagine a worse situation in all of sports.

Yet somehow Scott Drew just said, "golly-gee" and Baylor became a top ten program? This is what no one can wrap their heads around. I know Baylor fans love their program and consider it a good job, but for the rest of us looking in, it is suspiciously unprecedented.

 

[ribsnwhiskey]

I don't know if Baylor cheats. I do know they try to cover up murders. Not sure what is worse...

 

[baylrballa]

forget cheating..

We need another thread on your horrible fan support and the problem of cricket noise in your arena...

Already sold out for Saturday. I think it's just something about isu.
I'm not sure any Baylor fan can defend that crowd, it was bad. There are plenty of reasons for it(6pm, vast majority of fan base 2hrs away, not a hated opponent, letdown of a week, Monday school work, another game Saturday), but no excuses. It should be better.

From the inside it's pretty unbelievable sometimes looking back. I was a student before and after the scandal. I rarely, if ever missed a game. But we were horrid. I never thought we'd be mediocre again. But after every beat down, Drew was still the same bubbly, happy, energetic kid-like person he always has been. The hope he had at that when absolutely no one had any was amazing. Fans who followed saw it, and he found a handful of players(a couple steps more talented than we had) that bought in. That's never changed. That personality endears him to Baylor fans and is absolutely abhorred by outsiders. It is unprecedented. I can see how outsiders view it. But it's not solely dumb luck or paying players like so many want to believe. [/memorylane]

 

[Hambone]

all of you guys making fun of the crowd do know that we sold out the previous 3 games right? and that Saturday vs Kansas St. will be a sellout?

the fans were just upset about the home losses to KU and Mizz and the road blowouts, it was a Monday night and an early tip, causing both poor out of town and student turnouts. also, no insult, but our fans just don't seem to ever show up when we play ISU, they save their trips from Houston, Dallas etc. for the higher ranked teams and local rivals...

was still an unacceptable crowd tho, but far from the norm.

this crowd from a few weeks ago looks pretty good to me:

oh and it seems like nobody is even mentioning our perfect centralized location when it comes to recruiting... that plays a big part in why we have landed top 100 guys from Dallas, Houston, and even Louisiana.

also, you guys may think Waco is a craphole, but the Baylor campus is gorgeous and the buildings on our Univ. Parks strip are impressive, to say the least. we just built a new practice facility, locker room, weight room etc. and now our facilities are basically top notch.

so combine a young, likeable, incredibly hard-working coaching staff with a family atmosphere, private/religious school with good academic rankings/reputation and small class sizes, central location so families can come watch, great weather, beautiful campus area despite an average city (the Baylor bubble we call it), gorgeous women, up and coming program on the court with a recent Elite 8 run, tons of tv exposure, a lottery pick that transferred in, etc. and it's actually pretty easy to see why Baylor is such an attractive option right now...

the people that act like all of this happened overnight and that Drew magically started pulling in top classes are just so misinformed, it's painful to read.

1st time I have ever signed up for another board after reading a thread... just so much ignorance in here =/

 

[CyBer]

all of you guys making fun of the crowd do know that we sold out the previous 3 games right? and that Saturday vs Kansas St. will be a sellout?

the fans were just upset about the home losses to KU and Mizz and the road blowouts, it was a Monday night and an early tip, causing both poor out of town and student turnouts. also, no insult, but our fans just don't seem to ever show up when we play ISU, they save their trips from Houston, Dallas etc. for the higher ranked teams and local rivals...

was still an unacceptable crowd tho, but far from the norm.

this crowd from a few weeks ago looks pretty good to me:

oh and it seems like nobody is even mentioning our perfect centralized location when it comes to recruiting... that plays a big part in why we have landed top 100 guys from Dallas, Houston, and even Louisiana.

also, you guys may think Waco is a craphole, but the Baylor campus is gorgeous and the buildings on our Univ. Parks strip are impressive, to say the least. we just built a new practice facility, locker room, weight room etc. and now our facilities are basically top notch.

so combine a young, likeable, incredibly hard-working coaching staff with a family atmosphere, private/religious school with good academic rankings/reputation and small class sizes, central location so families can come watch, great weather, beautiful campus area despite an average city (the Baylor bubble we call it), gorgeous women, up and coming program on the court with a recent Elite 8 run, tons of tv exposure, a lottery pick that transferred in, etc. and it's actually pretty easy to see why Baylor is such an attractive option right now...

the people that act like all of this happened overnight and that Drew magically started pulling in top classes are just so misinformed, it's painful to read.

1st time I have ever signed up for another board after reading a thread... just so much ignorance in here =/

Please don't judge the whole fan base on this thread. Every fan base has it's idiots, most of them are posting in this thread lol.


*Edit
That picture is horrible though, what is it? Neon Green out?

 

[Palmer]

all of you guys making fun of the crowd do know that we sold out the previous 3 games right? and that Saturday vs Kansas St. will be a sellout?

the fans were just upset about the home losses to KU and Mizz and the road blowouts, it was a Monday night and an early tip, causing both poor out of town and student turnouts. also, no insult, but our fans just don't seem to ever show up when we play ISU, they save their trips from Houston, Dallas etc. for the higher ranked teams and local rivals...

was still an unacceptable crowd tho, but far from the norm.

this crowd from a few weeks ago looks pretty good to me:

oh and it seems like nobody is even mentioning our perfect centralized location when it comes to recruiting... that plays a big part in why we have landed top 100 guys from Dallas, Houston, and even Louisiana.

also, you guys may think Waco is a craphole, but the Baylor campus is gorgeous and the buildings on our Univ. Parks strip are impressive, to say the least. we just built a new practice facility, locker room, weight room etc. and now our facilities are basically top notch.

so combine a young, likeable, incredibly hard-working coaching staff with a family atmosphere, private/religious school with good academic rankings/reputation and small class sizes, central location so families can come watch, great weather, beautiful campus area despite an average city (the Baylor bubble we call it), gorgeous women, up and coming program on the court with a recent Elite 8 run, tons of tv exposure, a lottery pick that transferred in, etc. and it's actually pretty easy to see why Baylor is such an attractive option right now...

the people that act like all of this happened overnight and that Drew magically started pulling in top classes are just so misinformed, it's painful to read.

1st time I have ever signed up for another board after reading a thread... just so much ignorance in here =/

Campus is great.

Waco is a craphole.

 

[proisu]

Campus is great.

Waco is a craphole.

Waco is NOT craphole. there are parts that rnt good, just like DM. Im HUGE Clone guy, but get tired of people who dont a damn thing about another city (mostly Waco) that talk crap. People in glass houses should shut the fudge up!:realmad:

 

[mikeiastat]

Already sold out for Saturday. I think it's just something about isu.
I'm not sure any Baylor fan can defend that crowd, it was bad. There are plenty of reasons for it(6pm, vast majority of fan base 2hrs away, not a hated opponent, letdown of a week, Monday school work, another game Saturday), but no excuses. It should be better.

From the inside it's pretty unbelievable sometimes looking back. I was a student before and after the scandal. I rarely, if ever missed a game. But we were horrid. I never thought we'd be mediocre again. But after every beat down, Drew was still the same bubbly, happy, energetic kid-like person he always has been. The hope he had at that when absolutely no one had any was amazing. Fans who followed saw it, and he found a handful of players(a couple steps more talented than we had) that bought in. That's never changed. That personality endears him to Baylor fans and is absolutely abhorred by outsiders. It is unprecedented. I can see how outsiders view it. But it's not solely dumb luck or paying players like so many want to believe. [/memorylane]

I find that part of the sentence amusingly revealing. I have no verdict, but it was funny to me.

I will say, if someone said there were going to be 3 cheating programs about to get the smackdown. Try and name them. I think any poll likely has Baylor way up there on the list, and I would have a hard time keeping them off my list of 3. just sayin.

Does that make them cheaters no, but if you think its crazy for people to be suspicious, then you are out of touch with reality and certainly wearing the baylor puce collored glasses. I expect nothing less than a strong defense, but OJ had a great defense as well.

Time will tell. I actually hope that Drew is the next john wooden. Maybe it would restore some respectability to the NCAA. But to entertain the notion that anyone outside of a 100 mile radius of Waco would assume that scenario before the one argued here is just crazy talk.