Does Baylor Cheat?

[josh4isu]

Speaking of going to bed, I'm headed that direction myself. It's been fun, as usual, interacting with you guys. Good luck the rest of the way (except for March 3rd in Ames, of course).

lick our s a c k s ... buck faylor. that hand claw you jerk offs do is appalling.

 

[Peter]

The Baylor turnaround has to be one of the single biggest miracle sagas in NCAA BB history. Going from a program with no tradition on the heals of the Bliss murder scandle to one of the top programs in the nation is simply unfathomable.

A legitamte turnaround of that kind requires a Hall of Fame coach, somone like Mike Kryzewski or John Wooden or Jesus H. ****** for that matter (I suppose it is a Baptist institution). Despite what some Baylor fans believe, Scott Drew is not a hall of fame coach...so what the hell is going on?

Everyone smells something fishy, coachs, fans and the media. If the Baylor story was legit, ESPN would be running specials 24/7 proclaiming Scott Drew the basketball Messiah. I mean what a great story it would be...if it were true. The fact that no one in the media wants to say anything posative about Baylor BB is indicative of the situation. And no, Baylor fans, there is no media consperacy against your school. Remember the RGIII love fest last fall?

Imagine if the Indiana footbal program suffered a sex scandle of the same magnitutde as Penn State, but within five or six years was playing in BCS bowl games with some coach no one had ever heard of. Wouldn't you wonder WTF was going on?

 

[cyclones500]

BU obviously cheated to win this one. cool:

 

[FarmClone]

its been discussed before. it just got brought to the front of everyones mind because of the loss. i was simply thinking "holy ****. how is baylor this good with zero tradition and twelve fans in attendance" idk what they sell their recruits on.

I don't know how they do it either. Same thing with football. It still looks bad on our part IMO.

 

[marothisu]

The other aspect of their "selling" if it WAS legit would be the fan aspect. For example, Daunte Culpepper was pretty highly ranked in HS, but chose Central Florida because of a loyalty thing.

I don't think this is what's going on with Baylor though. Baylor recruits a ton of its players from in state, but I can't imagine why any young basketball player who doesn't live near Waco and doesn't have relatives who went to Baylor would want to root for a team that won 34% of its games between 2003 and 2007 and had a murder cover up before that. Not to mention before 2003 under Bliss, Baylor had exactly one winning season and the rest were around (usually under) .500.

 

[halaleezy]

lick our s a c k s ... buck faylor. that hand claw you jerk offs do is appalling.

You stay classy Josh.

 

[josh4isu]

You stay classy Josh.

you stay in waco dirtbag

 

[Rhoadhoused]

You stay classy Josh.

Ya that was not the nicest response to a very cordial statement.

 

[Doc]

Hopefully people will be calling CFH a cheater soon

THIS IS WHAT I'M SAYING. I want our coach to be such a good recruiter that he is called a cheater. At the same time I am saying that Scott Drew is either:

1. An Ultrarrecruiter
2. A Cheater

And if you pinned me down, I'd call him a cheater. I don't know. But I'm on a message board...this isn't some kind of innocent until proven guilty ****.

 

[Doc]

Success isn't an indication of cheating. Is that better, Doc?

The envy displayed on this thread is not attractive.

Give me your odds on whether Drew is cheating or not. I'm going 60/40 he's cheating.

You have no idea. I'm making a judgement and admitting I'm not certain.

 

[mikem]

Let's not forget this was for Valpo. Sure, you can learn the psychological aspect of recruiting, but suffice to say I'm pretty sure Scott Drew was not recruiting the egomaniac type of personality that many of the top recruits are. Valpo was part of basically the Summit league back then which is a low major conference. They had success which is why they're now in the Horizon league, but let's think about it. Imagine recruiting right now for South Dakota State University....you can't really compare those recruits in a psychological aspect to the head cases that are the top recruits (on average).

Actually, coaching at places like Valpo, when they had really good teams mind you, was great training for learning the ins and outs of the NCAA recruiting rulebook.

Think of how many foreign players they brought in, think of how difficult it is to do that. I would say that he had to learn the book extensively enough that he could learn any and every not illegal shortcut...

 

[Doc]

No you wouldnt. You would think it makes sense because of freds NBA pedigree and you would simply respond with "IFWT" to any naysayers. Go away.

I'd be very surprised if Fred pulled in talent like that and would be suspicious. An NBA pedigree does not get 2 Top 10 players in two years. I'd take Roy Williams, Jim Calhoun, Mike Krzyzewski, Ben Howland, Rick Barnes, John Calipari, etc. to get me to the NBA before Hoiberg.

 

[Doc]

Actually, coaching at places like Valpo, when they had really good teams mind you, was great training for learning the ins and outs of the NCAA recruiting rulebook.

Think of how many foreign players they brought in, think of how difficult it is to do that. I would say that he had to learn the book extensively enough that he could learn any and every not illegal shortcut...

Valpo made it out of the NCAA 1st Round once, and we all remember that one. Don't act like they were really that good.

 

[Yes13]

I'd be very surprised if Fred pulled in talent like that and would be suspicious. An NBA pedigree does not get 2 Top 10 players in two years. I'd take Roy Williams, Jim Calhoun, Mike Krzyzewski, Ben Howland, Rick Barnes, John Calipari, etc. to get me to the NBA before Hoiberg.

If Greg McDermott could get a top 20 recruit, I think Fred can and I wouldn't be suspicious at all. Same with Scott Drew. I'm almost more suspicious that McD got a top recruit than I am that Scott Drew has gotten multiple.

 

[mikem]

Valpo made it out of the NCAA 1st Round once, and we all remember that one. Don't act like they were really that good.

Actually, I didn't.

I was saying, and I will try to make this more clear for you, that the fact that they had recruits from all over the world, that he had to be more familiar with the NCAA rulebook than the average coach that doesn't recruit internationally.

It would stand to reason that in gaining his thorough knowledge of the rulebook, he would be able to see that there were some genuine loopholes that he could exploit.

I get that we have to feel all bad because we lost on the road to a top ten opponent. But this whole thread has been ridiculous.

And as far as other coaches hating Drew, it reminds me of the Eric Dickerson story from that 30 for 30 show on SMU. He changed his committment, and eatme was ******, but what were they going to say? WTF is any coach going to say? He cheated better than I did to get this kid?

 

[mikem]

If Greg McDermott could get a top 20 recruit, I think Fred can and I wouldn't be suspicious at all. Same with Scott Drew. I'm almost more suspicious that McD got a top recruit than I am that Scott Drew has gotten multiple.

This is absolutely the truest statement in the entire thread...

 

[Cyclonesrule91]

The only thing dumber than the first post that was typed after we got beat by a good Baylor team bringing up cheating allegations is that there are 7 pages of replies after that.

How embarrassing......

 

[Rural]

I don't think Calipari ever really cheated and I think he certainly doesn't now. Every single coach out there uses runners to steer kids to their program, Cal just had the best runner in the country in Worldwide Wes. Now, he's at one of the most storied programs of all time with a stellar reputation for turning kids into first round draft picks, is it really hard to see why kids would want to go play at UK?

I agree completely with your last sentence.
I disagree completely with your first sentence.

 

[Rural]

Information overload alert: For those that aren't aware of it, Mark Morefield is the guy at the center of the issue in question. He is your classic "overzealous assistant" who made a bad decision by sending a text message to an AAU coach during a game (which was the only violation) and then amplified his mistake by sending more to the recruit in question's high school coach.

The player in question is Hanner Perea, a Colombian native whom the Baylor coaching staff discovered and secured a Visa for, in order to get him to play in America. He was "placed" at a basketball academy in Indiana (debate the ethical nature of that if you want, but it is technically within NCAA rules), with a program called AHOPE. The man who founded and runs AHOPE is Mark Adams, whose son Drew was subsequently hired to a non-coaching position at Indiana. Like clockwork, Indiana starts getting the commitment of all of the AHOPE guys, including Perea.

Morefield understandably gets upset, having doen all the legwork to get Perea to America and into a basketball academy where he could be recruited by Baylor. Knowing that Perea's guardians trust the Baylor coaching staff, and the Baylor staff only, he sends a text to Mark Adams (during his coaching of an AAU game, which is a secondary violation) stating something along the lines of "If Hanner goes anywhere else [other than Baylor, is the assumption] he's going to be back in Colombia next year, and don't you forget it."

Adams, or the Indiana staff, leaks this text (and this text only) to an Indiana paper who writes an article lambasting Baylor for "threatening to deport a player that won't sign with them," and the whole thing gets legs. NCAA gets wind of it, heads to Waco, wraps up their investigation within about a week and scurries off to Indiana to investigate AHOPE and the Drew Adams connection (Adams subsequently takes a position at New Mexico, at a pay decrease).

While the NCAA has not formally closed the investigation at either school, Morefield fell on his sword and "resigned to pursue other basketball opportunities." It's probably pretty doubtful that either school will receive more than a slap on the wrist. It's not one of our brighter moments, to be sure.

Sorry for the length.

This is the point where Iowacentric people say, "The plot thickens".

 

[HFCS]

I think rhoads is a pretty relatable coach. We got our videos all over YouTube. Where are our blue-chippers?

This is a pretty excellent point. I think CPR is a good example of someone who gets 100% of the "I like the coach" recruiting boost, that boost alone is rarely scoring top ten players. It's impossible to imagine a coach players would be more excited about who isn't already a hall of fame legend like coach K.