Diesel Cars

[herbicide]

I am in Europe for work this week, and my rental vehicle is my first ever diesel car.

It is a Peugot 308SW, with either a 1.6L 110 hp diesel, or a 2.0L 140 diesel. Since it is a rental, (and its felt power level) I am guessing it is the 110hp version.

The only three ways you notice it is a diesel, is the sticker the rental company put on it to tell you to use diesel fuel, the low red-redline, and a small bit of diesel noise when it is warming up in the subfreezing temperatures. Once warm, you cannot hear any diesel noise.

Ok, there is a fourth way to notice. The car has so much low end torque, it is easier to "clutch" from a stop than pretty much anything I have drove before (including HP, V8 cars), and is super easy to smoothly change gears. By "clutch" I mean it has quite a bit of power at idle and off idle, so it doesn't require a careful operation of the clutch to give smooth, non-jerky starts.

This car isn't going to win many races, but it feels more than adequate on the highway passing, and is still averaging over 40mpg combined.

My experience with it has put the Jetta TDI back as the front runner for my next car...

 

[dmclone]

While in France a few months ago we rented a Citroen Picasso diesel and I felt the same way. Diesel is the way to go especially at $8/gallon gas. The only weird thing about the car was the automatic shifter. It was on the column and it was smaller than a turn signal.

Hopefully VW comes out with a few more models. I've heard Honda canceled their diesel plans.

 

[herbicide]

Did you notice the cost of diesel in Europe is much more inline with the costs of diesel here, as compared to gasoline? I saw 1.07 euro/liter for diesel, compared to the 1.50 euro/liter for gas. It equates to about $5.67/gallon vs $7.94/Gallon.

The main things I don't like about the Peugeot car is no tilt wheel (makes it a pain to get in and out of) and its a freaking hatchback.

 

[jbhtexas]

Hopefully VW comes out with a few more models. I've heard Honda canceled their diesel plans.

I don't know that you are going to see very many more diesel offerings in the US. The reputation of diesel has been quite tarnished by certain groups in the US. Also, the diesel pricing in the US doesn't help. I just got back from a conference, and a couple of my overseas friends were rather surprised that diesel is more expensive than gasoline here in the US.

Anyway...love my Jetta TDI and F-250 Powerstroke...

 

[herbicide]

I don't know that you are going to see very many more diesel offerings in the US. The reputation of diesel has been quite tarnished by certain groups in the US. Also, the diesel pricing in the US doesn't help. I just got back from a conference, and a couple of my overseas friends were rather suprised that diesel is more expensive than gasoline here in the US.

Anyway...love my Jetta TDI and F-250 Powerstroke...

A European coworker and I were talking about the effects of the US reputation of diesel, and we both thought that those days were numbered. As the global demand rises for petro, so will the appeal of diesel. A large portion of European cars are diesel, and they do not have air quality problems. Take into further consideration their population is much more dense and their emissions laws are much more lax.

 

[kayaker2005]

The VW Polo BlueMotion TDI Diesel available in Europe is supposed to get close to 75 mpg, I think if it was available in the US many more people would consider diesel. A test in Europe showed that it gets 50 mpg at 100 mph and had over 10 mpg better than the prius.

 

[BleedCycloneRed]

I was in Europe last summer and had the pleasure to rent a Opel Insignia Sportwagon with a diesel engine. The Insignia was the 2009 Europe Car of the Year, and I can see why. Great ride and power. And I got around 40 miles a gallon, and diesel was $0.10 per liter less than regular gas. I had it for 2 weeks. I was commited to buying a diesel for my next car and recently was looking. But the options were pretty limited at this time (VW's, BMW, and Mercedes-Can't anybody but Germans figure out how to make a diesel meet US pollution requirements). After doing some homework, VW had questionable long term performance issues, and BMW and Mercedes wanted more $ than I wanted to spend on a car (I am paying for 2 kids in college with a 3rd headed there in another year). Plus BMW and Mercedes are having trouble selling their diesles, and if I ever wanted to sell mine, I figured it woudl be a challenge. While VW can't keep theirs in stock and wants full sticker for them. Anyway, I settled on a Prius (going green) and hope that by the time I need another car everybody will have wised up (including the automakers, the US government that is the cause of high priced diesel gas, and the US population that does not like diesel), and we all will be able to purchase diesels.
Now with all that said, Let's Go Cylcones, Kick some Sooner backside tonight.

 

[MoreCowbell]

We had a Jeep Liberty CRD for 3 years but had to sell it when we had our second child. I loved that vehicle. Got great gas mileage (averaged 28-30, even with a lot of city driving). If any auto manufacturer starts selling a large SUV with a diesel option (that won't break our bank), I think my husband will be first in line.

 

[Bobber]

A European coworker and I were talking about the effects of the US reputation of diesel, and we both thought that those days were numbered. As the global demand rises for petro, so will the appeal of diesel. A large portion of European cars are diesel, and they do not have air quality problems. Take into further consideration their population is much more dense and their emissions laws are much more lax.

That's the key right there...I've read however that they are tighting up those standards and may make diesel a little tougher animal in Europe.

We had Ford Escort diesel back in the late 80's. It was a 5 speed and was hoot to drive. I've longed to buy a good diesel again and was really wishing I could have found a minivan with one, but no dice.

The economics just don't favor them real well here in the U.S. Until they do, I don't see them coming in force any time soon.:sad:

 

[SwirlingFloater]

I was in Spain on business 5 years ago and rented a smallish diesel Opel to drive from Barcelona to Valencia and back. Drove around 80 mph down to Valencia and 100 mph back to Barcelona. The Opel had terrific power, smooth ride and still sipped the diesel when driving it hard. Terrific car!! I wish they had cars like that available here.

 

[besserheimerphat]

I'm not sure that the European emissions laws are necessarily more lax overall, but they allow more particulate and NOx and less CO2, which favors the diesel cycle. US laws allow more CO2, but less particulate and NOx, favoring gas. I've also totally bought into diesel, actually buying an F-250 this past spring. And my next car will certainly be a small diesel hatchback (Golf or similar) for the majority of my driving.

 

[herbicide]

That's the key right there...I've read however that they are tighting up those standards and may make diesel a little tougher animal in Europe.

We had Ford Escort diesel back in the late 80's. It was a 5 speed and was hoot to drive. I've longed to buy a good diesel again and was really wishing I could have found a minivan with one, but no dice.

The economics just don't favor them real well here in the U.S. Until they do, I don't see them coming in force any time soon.:sad:

I really want to say something about the economics comment, but it will end up in the cave. Because it isn't about economics, its about something else...

Anyway, I don't think the Euro's are going to make any move to lessen the amount of diesel vehicles on the road, unless it is to favor LPG.

From a technological/efficiency standpoint, for passenger vehicles, diesel engines are far superior to gasoline engines.

 

[dmclone]

For those considering the Jetta TDI, I just got my 4 car magazines in the mail and 3/4 had something about the TDI


Automobile Mag
Long Term TDI, 6speed manual,
They averaged 37mpg.
They liked the car but did have a few complaints. In cold climates it takes forever to warm up inside the car. They didn't like the clutch feel and wished they would have paid $1,100 more to get the DSG trans.
They said it was a great car for long distance drivers. They could get almost 600 miles per tank and the gas mileage on the highway beats cars like the fusion hybrid. Nothing broke and maintence was free for 3/36K.

 

[dmclone]

Car and Driver
2009 TDI w/dsg trans
Long term test
They didn't like the dsg. They didn't think it paired well with the diesel motor compared to the GTI. In 40K miles they had an engine light and a seat belt light that wouldn't go off. Both were reset and never came back on. Like idiots they put regular gas in it one time but caught their error before starting the car. They had to have it towed. They also mentioned about the ability not to heat. At -10 they drove 20 miles and the engine temp never moved off the line. Canadian models have an electric heater to eliminate this issue.

They got 38mpg. Other than the DSG transmission, which only some people didn't like, they liked the car and found it to be a better alternative to the Prius. They did complain that at the time Diesel was $1 more per gallon.

 

[ISUATC]

My buddy rolled in a late 80's diesel Chevette in high school. Man, I loved that car! Oh, the memories. It did have good speed off the start tho!:smile: 6 foot 3 rollin in the vettes passenger seat, great times.....

 

[dmclone]

R&T had an interesting article comparing 3 cars.

Golf TDI
Ford Fiesta
Toyota Prius


They took all the cars on different kinds of routes to compare gas mileage. Overall they averaged

Prius 54.5 mpg
Golf TDI 42.7
Fiesta 40.8

They were similar in times from 0-60. The TDI did it in 8.8, Fiesta 9.2, and Prius 9.8.

They did a 70mph, cruise control, no air test

Prius 57.3
TDI 53.5
Fiesta 46.8

The TDI did the worst on a 35 mile cruise through the canyons that averaged 22mph.

Prius 40.8
Fiesta 34.4
TDI 30.9

They gave no opinions on the cars. They just wanted to give real world results. They did about 8 of these tests. The Golf TDI cost nearly $27K but it had things like a $2K nav system, xenon lights, light washers, heated leather, etc.

 

[besserheimerphat]

R&T had an interesting article comparing 3 cars.

Golf TDI
Ford Fiesta
Toyota Prius


They took all the cars on different kinds of routes to compare gas mileage. Overall they averaged

Prius 54.5 mpg
Golf TDI 42.7
Fiesta 40.8

They were similar in times from 0-60. The TDI did it in 8.8, Fiesta 9.2, and Prius 9.8.

They did a 70mph, cruise control, no air test

Prius 57.3
TDI 53.5
Fiesta 46.8

The TDI did the worst on a 35 mile cruise through the canyons that averaged 22mph.

Prius 40.8
Fiesta 34.4
TDI 30.9

They gave no opinions on the cars. They just wanted to give real world results. They did about 8 of these tests. The Golf TDI cost nearly $27K but it had things like a $2K nav system, xenon lights, light washers, heated leather, etc.

This is what drives me nuts, the TDI's are only offered with high option packages, putting them much more expensive than the cars their competing against in the states. I've heard that they almost sell the cars at cost though, because American's won't pay the premium for VW that Europeans will, so I assume their adding the junk to increase their margin. But dang it, I want a stripped down TDI!

 

[Cyclonesrule91]

The economics just don't favor them real well here in the U.S. Until they do, I don't see them coming in force any time soon.:sad:

What do you mean the economics don't favor them? They might be a little more expensive up front. But they get better gas mileage, are tons more durable then a gas engine and are just getting broke in when it's time to overhaul a gas engine. I would say the economics are pretty darn favorable for diesels. With 3 small kids, if they came out with a diesel minivan, I would be all over it.

 

[burn587]

I would love to get a diesel car and in fact with all the traveling for work I do, when it comes time for a brand new car, it will be a diesel. I work for a railroad and all of our large vehicles are diesel and maybe about 20% of our smaller vehicles are diesel. We beat the everliving crap out of our trucks (driving them thru ditches, right of ways, spending all day idling and running a power take off, and generally hauling a lot of weight) and they still last a long time.

I'm a little surprised to see those magazines complaining about the cars not heating quickly, everyone knows you should let a diesel run for 10 or so minutes before driving in the morning. What I didn't see mentioned was what systems did they have to keep the fuel filters and diesel from gelling? Big trucks always have plug in engine block heaters, but I'm not sure if cars do.

 

[erikbj]

For those considering the Jetta TDI, I just got my 4 car magazines in the mail and 3/4 had something about the TDI


Automobile Mag
Long Term TDI, 6speed manual,
They averaged 37mpg.
They liked the car but did have a few complaints. In cold climates it takes forever to warm up inside the car. They didn't like the clutch feel and wished they would have paid $1,100 more to get the DSG trans.
They said it was a great car for long distance drivers. They could get almost 600 miles per tank and the gas mileage on the highway beats cars like the fusion hybrid. Nothing broke and maintence was free for 3/36K.

I know it is off topic a bit, my wife has Passat 2.0T (gas) and we took it on vacation and got 35-37 mpg and 600 miles out of a tank - which was great becaue our trip was 550 miles door to door. My friend has the TDI and loves it and he says he gets in the upper 40 miles/gallon, sometimes in the low 50's. I think our next car will definetly be a Diesel, I see BMW and Audi just brought their line over to the states - has anyone drove those?