Defense

[stewart092284]

Since the thread about not being to get a stop exists, I'll just throw this out there - I'm very proud of the job the defense did last night. I'm not going to say what I really want to say how it was framed that the defense let the offense down by not getting a stop in a game where they gave up 6 points in a half. Yes, Texas had a much better second half. But when you make the number of mistakes we made on offense and ST for the majority of the game - I'm not going to turn around and criticize a defense that was the only reason we were even in the game.

I get that there are some nice players on offense. But as I continue to say and will continue to say, the defense has more youth playing than the offense (for example, all but one of our primary receivers is a junior or older) and I just see red when I see praise for a unit that was nonexistent for half of a football game and seemingly blame the other side.

We played well. It was a good competitive game where we didn't get run off the field. And yeah, maybe if we get a stop or 2 more in the second half its a different story.
Kinda like maybe if we showed a pulse on offense in the first half its a different story.

Its a young team. Its got a bright future. But this game was not about the defense.

We had 4 sacks, 5 tackles for loss, gave up 2.5 yards rushing and won the turnover battle - and we were losing at half time and had 3 points. Texas scoring and moving the ball was inevitable because they simply are that good. Our offense now against winning teams has scored

13 points
7 points
20 points
21 points
16 points

In our 5 losses the defense has given up . In the first 4 quarters of our last two big 12 home games our offense has scored a combined 6 points.

13 points (pick 6)
10 points
43 (pick 6)
21 points (pick 6)
24 points (safety)


I don't hate the players on offense. But since the narrative continues to be somehow that the defense failed to get a stop, or that the defense failed to do XYZ - when the offense was doing everything it could - just irritates the heck out of me and makes me see blood red as a defensive guy.

I totally get wanting to be positive with a young offense and not calling them out. That's fine. No argument.
But then... wouldn't the same logic apply to a young defense? IDK.

 

[danvillecyclone]

One thing I’ve noticed at the last two home games,
KU
UT

Heacock has been very vocal (far more than usual) to the secondary after long drives. He is a very solid DC and his schemes are proven.

I attribute his actions towards this group to mistakes on zone reads allowing too many long passes to too many wide open receivers/TE’s/Backs.

You mention the youth especially on defense. Thats what you get. One guy makes a bad zone read and it’s a 10+ yard reception. And on 3rd downs those are killers.

Texas had 7 pass catchers individually had longs of:
31, 30, 30, 17, 13, 12, 8.

We actually had quite a bit of pressure on Ewers considering the normal 3-4 man rush.

They will continue to grow as a unit and the extra month of Bowl practice will be a huge push in that growth.

 

[danvillecyclone]

Posted twice for effect.

Lol

 

[Cyclonepride]

Posted twice for effect.

Lol

I deleted the second one for you

 

[stewart092284]

Posted twice for effect.

Lol

And I get that. I know they're not perfect. It just seems like narrative that is put out publicly is that the offense is carrying the team. Its just the over whelming positive outlook for a mediocre offense and a seeming pessimistic outlook for a defense that has kept us in all but one game, over the past few years has very rarely if ever been the reason for a loss -

its driving me a tad crazy.

I feel for the defense. I feel like its held to a very different stand than the offense

 

[Daserop]

Has never been the issue.

 

[stewart092284]

Agreed. It just - IDK - reading CMC talk about how we never got a stop and got confidence on offense etc - it just -- technically, its correct. But it just rubs me the wrong way. Defense is not why we lost last night or 90% of the games we've lost over the years.

That's my biggest frustration. IDK if its talking points or if we really can't see that we need to do more on offense. I don't mean points per say. I mean, creativity wise.

It's always struck as odd that we have completely been willing to change our defense - before we came up with the dime stack that has served us so well - and yet, we took incredibly long to find a ST coordinator - and we don't really seem interested, able, willing, whatever word you want to use - to do the same offensively.

That's what puzzles me. We'll show the ability to be outside the box and make a drastic change on one side of the ball but not really anywhere else. And I don't understand why. I'm not saying go Mike Leach (RIP) on people, but when our offense was good, we had more tempo, we were a little more diverse play calling wise, we were crazy, no, but a little more so. Even this season when we open it up and are more diverse, we have success or more success, and then yet, we seem to get sucked back into the old approach from time to time.

I totally get that's what we want to do. Or who we want to be. But initially we wanted to be a 4 down front and we recognized that was not working. I just don't get what seems to be the holdup realizing that the offense is not operating at a high level and look into making more than superficial changes. Why we were willing to make a drastic side one part of the program but not really anywhere else - I don't understand

 

[CascadeClone]

Texas was avg 30 ppg. Held them to 24. Thats good enough.

Offense was close, made some big plays. Could not get a run game established. Rocco was really good overall but a couple of big mistakes. Sounds like a freshman.

Some credit to the whorns too, they finally have a good defense, after many years of missed assignments and missed tackles.

 

[rosshm16]

I'm not into moral victories but Texas played a near-perfect game (one fumble, early on, and we didn't capitalize on it; any other major miscues?). It's a good example of the fickle nature of football. Don't give up the 3-point swing on the PAT, and make one more big play on O or D and it's a tie game. But we didn't make those plays.

 

[Stormin]

Bottom line is Texas beat us. We had a number of failures in every phase. Special teams. Blocked PAT returned. 3 point swing. Fortunately got holding calls on a couple big Texas returns. Offensive line got no push for rushing. Rush game shut down. Rocco did okay. Defense let to many long passes get completed. Texas receivers really explosive. We fell short in every phase while every phase did make some plays. Bottom line is that Texas is a highly ranked veteran team. Our youth and lack of consistency cost us. My suggestion is rather than negatively criticizing and making derogatory comments is to accept this loss to a very good team. Learn, grow, and continue to improve. We did have opportunities if we made a few more plays. In every phase.

 

[jbhtexas]

Bottom line is Texas beat us. We had a number of failures in every phase. Special teams. Blocked PAT returned. 3 point swing. Fortunately got holding calls on a couple big Texas returns. Offensive line got no push for rushing. Rush game shut down. Rocco did okay. Defense let to many long passes get completed. Texas receivers really explosive. We fell short in every phase while every phase did make some plays. Bottom line is that Texas is a highly ranked veteran team. Our youth and lack of consistency cost us. My suggestion is rather than negatively criticizing and making derogatory comments is to accept this loss to a very good team. Learn, grow, and continue to improve. We did have opportunities if we made a few more plays. In every phase.

UT was scoring 34 ppg in conference play coming into the game and ISU held them to 24. That doesn't seem like ISU "fell short" there.

Offensive execution/game plan and special teams...yup...they fell short.

 

[KidSilverhair]

I'm not into moral victories but Texas played a near-perfect game (one fumble, early on, and we didn't capitalize on it; any other major miscues?). It's a good example of the fickle nature of football. Don't give up the 3-point swing on the PAT, and make one more big play on O or D and it's a tie game. But we didn't make those plays.

Well, losing two TDs to penalties might be considered “miscues,” lol.

But in general, yeah, Texas was pretty solid all around. I was asking my son-in-law as the game was ending which had the biggest effect, the blocked PAT or the interception, and I think they were both huge. Both came after big lifts for the crowd (the TD and the defense finally getting a three and out), both took all the air out of the stadium, and Texas got points out of both.

Like CW said, there were four big hits to ISU’s chances:

-the dropped INT
-the missed FG (bad snap really hurt)
-blocked PAT/return
-INT after the three-and-out

I would add the whole review process that turned a first down to a fourth and three (which led to the missed FG): first, it’s always a punch in the gut when ISU doesn’t try to run a hurry-up play after a close call on the field, to try to beat the review; and second, CMC thought the choice was between first down or fourth and short, and obviously got caught by surprise when the ball was moved back three yards. Used a time out and then missed the long FG (of course, knowing CMC if it was fourth & short he’d have had Rocco use a hard count and then call time out anyway, so …).

 

[cyatheart]

I thought they did as well as could be expected. They got burned on that same play again, that was the only really bad thing. We gave up too many chunky runs too.

But overall, they kept us in it. Texas really called a good game offensively too.

At some point you have to score, 16 points was never going to be enough. That’s why I was really disappointed by that long field goal we tried to kick, we needed to go for that.

I’m not going to analyze this too much. Texas was better, and sometimes the better team wins.

 

[NENick]

I'm not sure I agree with the premise of the thread. I see a lot of complaining about the offense.

 

[Mr.G.Spot]

A lot of great comments and perspectives about the defense and offense.

The old saying that "u pick on the ones u love" is true with MC. He knows the core issues with losses like this are buried in the lack of a running game. He, and Clanton, are rebuilding that culture and will only have rough comments outside of the media presence. He knows holding UT to 24 points is a great performance. His thoughts are publicly that if we would had stopped them a few more times, our offense could have........

A better and more mature offensive line results in 2-3 fewer losses this year. The whole team knows that. "Getting stops and creating more chances" are true, but it is a deflection until his oline can handle public conversation. Heacock is in on the strategy. He is a big boy.

 

[NWICY]

A lot of great comments and perspectives about the defense and offense.

The old saying that "u pick on the ones u love" is true with MC. He knows the core issues with losses like this are buried in the lack of a running game. He, and Clanton, are rebuilding that culture and will only have rough comments outside of the media presence. He knows holding UT to 24 points is a great performance. His thoughts are publicly that if we would had stopped them a few more times, our offense could have........

A bettor and more mature offensive line results in 2-3 fewer losses this year. The whole team knows that. "Getting stops and creating more chances" are true, but it is a deflection until his oline can handle public conversation. Heacock is in on the strategy. He is a big boy.

Matt is lucky Heacock is still here.

 

[stewart092284]

A lot of great comments and perspectives about the defense and offense.

The old saying that "u pick on the ones u love" is true with MC. He knows the core issues with losses like this are buried in the lack of a running game. He, and Clanton, are rebuilding that culture and will only have rough comments outside of the media presence. He knows holding UT to 24 points is a great performance. His thoughts are publicly that if we would had stopped them a few more times, our offense could have........

A better and more mature offensive line results in 2-3 fewer losses this year. The whole team knows that. "Getting stops and creating more chances" are true, but it is a deflection until his oline can handle public conversation. Heacock is in on the strategy. He is a big boy.

I get that.... And I can appreciate to to a point.... but my frustration is .....

we know what the O line is good at. We know what its not good at it. Trying to run at Sweat ONE TIME up the middle is crazy with this O line. Yet we did it several times.

I don't blame our offensive line for that. That's where IMO a lack of creativity on offense shows. You know they have a small living and moving mountain at defensive tackle. And our approach was to ... more or less... operate as normal. Best defensive line in the nation and we didn't really appear to try a different approach than what we see when we play Kansas.


I won't call out the OL for that. Thats where my frustation with the offense is. Don't put them in a position to fail. Any type of inside run game against Texas, with this OL, is going to fail. If we had tried running a stretch zone or power toss and it got murdered, OK, fine. Fair enough but at least then we weren't running right into the very strength of Texas. That would be like an opposing team deciding to run directly at TO for 4 quarters or single blocking McDonald. Do it occasionally? Sure.

Roll the pocket out. Play with tempo. I'm a big dude - though no where close as big as these guys - but get them moving side to side instead of north - south.

This where IMO Kansas has surpassed us. The main thing Leipold does I wish we did is man, you see the creativity and tailoring of the offense each week to attack something. I get we want to be "this is our identity team" and that'll work great in the new big 12 where we might be able to physically beat up more teams. In theory. But in our likely last ever meeting with Texas - looking at their DL and looking at our OL all week in preparation and thinking the majority of our runs needed to be inside of the C gap - why?

 

[Frak]

I'm not sure I agree with the premise of the thread. I see a lot of complaining about the offense.

Yeah I think that there’s plenty of blame to go around. It definitely starts with the OL and running game. But the defense wasn’t good either. Gave up 100 yards to their backup RB, got out schemed multiple times with wide open WRs. TJ Tampa had a bad game and got torched.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

Offense is still not creative or aggressive enough. Defense is too conservative for my taste but they're keeping us in the game.

 

[CyCrazy]

Matt is lucky Heacock is still here.

Well he wont be next year. So be prepared.