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MLB: Another Cubs Thread: What changes are needed...

drednot57

drednot57

Well-Known Member
Apr 26, 2010
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to get this team back atop the NL Central in the next three to five years, and perhaps the World Series? First, as I see it, the replacement for Pinella needs to embody what has made CPR so successful at ISU. A person who, by the force of his personality and undying enthusiasm, plus being a stickler for fundamentals and execution, can turn around a culture of losing to that of winning. As much of a challenge finding that person may be, Hendry needs to hire him, or be looking for a new job next year. I have a man in mind. IMO, Ron Gardenhire, Manager of the Minnesota Twins, shares many similar qualities that CPR has that got ISU out of the doldrums. I'm not sure what Gardy's contractual buyout entails, but I would love to see him managing of the Cubs next year.

I believe Hendry is a proven talent evaluator, so getting talent in the organization should be no problem. It's just that so often, that talent under performs when they play for the Cubs, as they're too often rushed to the majors before they're truly ready. We need a management team that has both high expectations, and the patience to let talent develop to its potential before putting it on stage in "The Show." Again, Gardy has shown that patience while keeping up expectations among the players and allowing the team to gel.

The Cubs' ownership getting the fans to "buy in" to a three to five year plan to get to the World Series, so fans' expectations are not unrealistically high (as if they ever were).

I think the Cubs have the talent in house (meaning within the organization) to win both the divisional and league pennants and get to World Series, but need leadership in place to put coaches and players in places where they can succeed and reverse the culture of losing that are the Cubs today.

Just my soap box speech as a Cubs fan.
 
We just need to build around Starlin Castro and go from there. I really dont think we will be a very good team for at least another 2 or 3 years. Thats what sucks about rebuilding, but its got to be done.
 
After the fire sale, I don't see this team being any good for the next 4-5 years. It's going to be painful. I hope I'm wrong.
 
drednot57 said:
to get this team back atop the NL Central in the next three to five years, and perhaps the World Series? First, as I see it, the replacement for Pinella needs to embody what has made CPR so successful at ISU. A person who, by the force of his personality and undying enthusiasm, plus being a stickler for fundamentals and execution, can turn around a culture of losing to that of winning. As much of a challenge finding that person may be, Hendry needs to hire him, or be looking for a new job next year. I have a man in mind. IMO, Ron Gardenhire, Manager of the Minnesota Twins, shares many similar qualities that CPR has that got ISU out of the doldrums. I'm not sure what Gardy's contractual buyout entails, but I would love to see him managing of the Cubs next year.

I believe Hendry is a proven talent evaluator, so getting talent in the organization should be no problem. It's just that so often, that talent under performs when they play for the Cubs, as they're too often rushed to the majors before they're truly ready. We need a management team that has both high expectations, and the patience to let talent develop to its potential before putting it on stage in "The Show." Again, Gardy has shown that patience while keeping up expectations among the players and allowing the team to gel.

The Cubs' ownership getting the fans to "buy in" to a three to five year plan to get to the World Series, so fans' expectations are not unrealistically high (as if they ever were).

I think the Cubs have the talent in house (meaning within the organization) to win both the divisional and league pennants and get to World Series, but need leadership in place to put coaches and players in places where they can succeed and reverse the culture of losing that are the Cubs today.

Just my soap box speech as a Cubs fan.
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I'd be absolutely shocked if you could pry Gardenhire away from the Twins. He's been a coach in the Twins system for 20+ years, the Twins are happy with him and I think he's comfortable with the Twins management. The Twins personnel department is also very stable and loyal. His wife is a native Minnesotan and his son is a farmhand in the Twins system. My guess is he'll be like Tom Kelly and coach for the Twins until he's ready to step down, or he'd have to have atrocious teams over a long period.
 
drednot57 said:
to get this team back atop the NL Central in the next three to five years, and perhaps the World Series? First, as I see it, the replacement for Pinella needs to embody what has made CPR so successful at ISU. A person who, by the force of his personality and undying enthusiasm, plus being a stickler for fundamentals and execution, can turn around a culture of losing to that of winning. As much of a challenge finding that person may be, Hendry needs to hire him, or be looking for a new job next year. I have a man in mind. IMO, Ron Gardenhire, Manager of the Minnesota Twins, shares many similar qualities that CPR has that got ISU out of the doldrums. I'm not sure what Gardy's contractual buyout entails, but I would love to see him managing of the Cubs next year.

I believe Hendry is a proven talent evaluator, so getting talent in the organization should be no problem. It's just that so often, that talent under performs when they play for the Cubs, as they're too often rushed to the majors before they're truly ready. We need a management team that has both high expectations, and the patience to let talent develop to its potential before putting it on stage in "The Show." Again, Gardy has shown that patience while keeping up expectations among the players and allowing the team to gel.
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you are beyond delusional if you think gardy would leave the twins for the cubs disfunctional organization. your best chance of winning would be to change your name. it worked for the rays/devil rays. they went from one of the worst teams in baseball to world series contender in a matter of a few years
 
IcSyU said:
Gardy and Girardi are pretty damn much off limits.
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This, although I'd say they'd have a slightly better chance at Girardi simply because of his history with the Cubs.

As far as what it will take for the Cubs to win within the next 3-5 years, they'd have to basically become the Yankees of the National League Central and buy their wins. Then again, as they have/had something like the third highest payroll in baseball, they've tried that route without success.

I do find it ironic that the Cubs fans thanking god that Piniella is now gone are the ones thanking god that Baker was finally gone as well when Dusty Baker left. And yet he only took over the Cincinnati Reds and has them on the verge of winning the Central. Perhaps the problem has far less to do with who's managing and you have to go much higher up the food chain to find the problem.

Still think that the best thing that could have ever happened to the Cubs would have been if Cuban had been allowed to buy the team. I would have become a part-time fan almost instantly...
 
IMO, Jim Hendry should not be choosing the next manager.

While he has done many great things for the Cubs, there are more than a handful of questions marks relating to some of the moves he has made, and if the Cubs are going to clean house, Hendry should be gone with the rest of them.
 
There are a few things I'd really love the Cubs to do this offseason. Even with the recent dismantalling of the roster, the Cubs still have 5 guys who make way too much money for what they produce, and remember this is a per year salary.
1) Alfonso Soriano 19,000,000
2) Carlos Zambrano 18,875,000
3) Aramis Ramirez 16,750,000
4) Kosuke Fukudome 14,000,000
5) Ryan Dempster 13,500,000

I would do everything possible to unload Zambrano and Fukudome, trying to get something in return that would benefit the club. As the lineup stands now, coming back next year the cubs have

C - Geo Soto
1B
2B
SS - Starlin Castro
3B - Aramis Ramierez
LF - Soriano
CF - Marlon Byrd
RF - Tyler Colvin

P - Dempster
P - Wells
P - Gorzelanny
P
P

Bench - Dewitt,

Of course the cubs have seen over 15 rookies in a big league uniform this year (currently have 11 in uniform) and any one of them could surprise and make a legitimate run at a starting spot. The list of free agents for 2011 is nothing too special, outside of Pujols who will return to STL for a rediculous amount of money, but a few of the peices needed are out there.

First Base -
Carlos Pena is a solid player, both offensively and defensively, and will be a comprobale price to what a Derek Lee might request

Second Base -
Orlando Hudson, who has been available two different off seasons, with rumors of his production being down, and both times he has continued to produce at a level so much higher then any 2nd baseman the cubs have had. He is a leadoff hitter, and can get onbase, steal a few bases, and avoid the strike out. All things the cubs desprately need.

Pitching -
The cubs starters have been solid for the most part all season, and bringing back Lilly, and signing another starter might be the best option, giving the young guys one more year to fully get ready. The bulpen, on the other hand, has been terrible outside of Marshall, so get rid of everyone but marshall and start over. If they want to dismantle a team, dont half-*** it, and really gut the entire team to start over.
 
The biggest challenge is freeing up payroll in order to build around the young talent they have. The 2 biggest needs IMO are getting proven consistent veteran middle relievers and a proven consistent power hitter for the middle of the lineup. Had they signed Adam Dunn instead of Milton Bradley 2 years ago the later would have already been taken care of. Dunn make K a lot and not have a great glove but just look at his production. He's basically been a 40 HR 100 RBI high OBP guy for the past 8 seasons now. Since 2004 he's averaged almost 41HR, 101 RBI, 112 BB, .384 OBP. Yeah he has a high K total and bats around .260ish but he drives in runs and gets on base which are 2 things the Cubs "power" hitters fail to do.

I think the Cubs can have a decent rotation and there is some pitching talent to develop still but you can't rely on young guys with little MLB expirience to fill practically all the middle relief roles or you get what they have this season. Marshall and Marmol can close games out but getting them the lead that a quality start got them or the offense scoring enough to win a 3-2 game this year has been tough to do.
 
I believe Hendry is a proven talent evaluator, so getting talent in the organization should be no problem. It's just that so often, that talent under performs when they play for the Cubs, as they're too often rushed to the majors before they're truly ready. We need a management team that has both high expectations, and the patience to let talent develop to its potential before putting it on stage in "The Show." Again, Gardy has shown that patience while keeping up expectations among the players and allowing the team to gel.

I think the Cubs have the talent in house (meaning within the organization) to win both the divisional and league pennants and get to World Series, but need leadership in place to put coaches and players in places where they can succeed and reverse the culture of losing that are the Cubs today.

What makes you think either of these things? Hendry cannot properly evaluate the players in his own system. This is why we are constantly selling low on our prospects once it's clear to everyone, except Baltimore, that they can't cut it. There is this belief that Hendry built up our minor league programs before he became GM. He produced zero meaningful position players during his tenure, with 2003 Patterson (half a season mind you) being the best thing to come under his watch. Our minor league development is atrocious at every level. Our prospects come up with little baseball sense and poor fundamentals. There are no true impact prospects left in our system. We have guys who can fill out a roster but no cornerstones in the minors. A lot is going to fall onto Castro, Colvin, Soto, Cashner and Marmol in the next few years, but even this core will need a hell of a lot of help.
 
I hope we look to trade Marmol in the off season. There is no reason to be paying our closer however much money he is going to get from arbitration. It should be around 7 million or so. Trade him while his value is still sky high and get some prospects who can help this team win in the near future.
 
Neckbeard said:
I believe Hendry is a proven talent evaluator, so getting talent in the organization should be no problem. It's just that so often, that talent under performs when they play for the Cubs, as they're too often rushed to the majors before they're truly ready. We need a management team that has both high expectations, and the patience to let talent develop to its potential before putting it on stage in "The Show." Again, Gardy has shown that patience while keeping up expectations among the players and allowing the team to gel.

I think the Cubs have the talent in house (meaning within the organization) to win both the divisional and league pennants and get to World Series, but need leadership in place to put coaches and players in places where they can succeed and reverse the culture of losing that are the Cubs today.

What makes you think either of these things? Hendry cannot properly evaluate the players in his own system. This is why we are constantly selling low on our prospects once it's clear to everyone, except Baltimore, that they can't cut it. There is this belief that Hendry built up our minor league programs before he became GM. He produced zero meaningful position players during his tenure, with 2003 Patterson (half a season mind you) being the best thing to come under his watch. Our minor league development is atrocious at every level. Our prospects come up with little baseball sense and poor fundamentals. There are no true impact prospects left in our system. We have guys who can fill out a roster but no cornerstones in the minors. A lot is going to fall onto Castro, Colvin, Soto, Cashner and Marmol in the next few years, but even this core will need a hell of a lot of help.
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Hendry has had mixed results in everything he's done, including the evaluating process. The problem with the Cubs is not necessarily evaluating talent but developing it. Choi brought Lee, Bobby Hill and others brought Ramirez. Patterson and Pie were brought up much too early when there were numerous reports they needed to develop better strike zone discipline. I see the same thing going on with Castro and Colvin. They've been lucky with Castro as he might be something special and can overcome being called up early. But Colvin and his lack of strike zone discipline will eventually catch up to him. I would sell high on him right now.

I think it's difficult to say the cubs have no true impact prospects left in the system. Castro, Marmol and maybe Cashner are the only players I would consider true impact prospects to come thru the Cubs farm system. Two years ago I doubt many people had heard about Castro. Things can change quickly.

I see two position players in the minors who could be true impact players.

Brett Jackson, 22, CF. Bats left and has advanced two levels this year. Strikes out a bit much, but gets on base at a nice clip, has some pop and some good speed.

Hak Ju Lee, 19, SS. Bats left, has + speed, good OBP, but not much pop. If he can continue to get on base as he advances up the minors, will be a solid lead off option.

Ideally the Cubs would go out and get a power hitting 1B and #1 starter in free agency. There is no 1B in their system. The Cubs current roster doesn't have a true #1 and even if they had one with that potential in the minors, I don't think you want to count on a rookie as your staff ace.
 
gocubs2118 said:
I hope we look to trade Marmol in the off season. There is no reason to be paying our closer however much money he is going to get from arbitration. It should be around 7 million or so. Trade him while his value is still sky high and get some prospects who can help this team win in the near future.
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+10000

I can't stand Marmol anymore. WAY too many walks for a closer, no matter how nasty his stuff it
 
drednot57 said:
to get this team back atop the NL Central in the next three to five years, and perhaps the World Series? First, as I see it, the replacement for Pinella needs to embody what has made CPR so successful at ISU. A person who, by the force of his personality and undying enthusiasm, plus being a stickler for fundamentals and execution, can turn around a culture of losing to that of winning. As much of a challenge finding that person may be, Hendry needs to hire him, or be looking for a new job next year. I have a man in mind. IMO, Ron Gardenhire, Manager of the Minnesota Twins, shares many similar qualities that CPR has that got ISU out of the doldrums. I'm not sure what Gardy's contractual buyout entails, but I would love to see him managing of the Cubs next year.

I believe Hendry is a proven talent evaluator, so getting talent in the organization should be no problem. It's just that so often, that talent under performs when they play for the Cubs, as they're too often rushed to the majors before they're truly ready. We need a management team that has both high expectations, and the patience to let talent develop to its potential before putting it on stage in "The Show." Again, Gardy has shown that patience while keeping up expectations among the players and allowing the team to gel.

The Cubs' ownership getting the fans to "buy in" to a three to five year plan to get to the World Series, so fans' expectations are not unrealistically high (as if they ever were).

I think the Cubs have the talent in house (meaning within the organization) to win both the divisional and league pennants and get to World Series, but need leadership in place to put coaches and players in places where they can succeed and reverse the culture of losing that are the Cubs today.

Just my soap box speech as a Cubs fan.
Click to expand...
Prayer..............and lots of it.
 
There is no quick fix for the Cubs IMO. They are 5 years out from being a contender. They need to dump their old guys and their bloated salaries which is almost impossible. They need to find and develop young talent, as well as sign some good free agents since they have the coin.

Can the Cubs do this? Absolutely. Will they do it? I think they have a long history of not doing it.
 
It's gonna take time, the teams that keep trying to throw money at their problems are just screwing themselves (Mets, Mariners). You have to build from inside the franchise, like the Rays or Reds, to have a successful team year in and year out.

Also, the Yankees don't count, they do develop their own talent, but they can go out and sign anyone they want, unlike any other team in the game.
 
Was good to see Quade get that 1st win out of the way quickly and in impressive fashion too. It's just 1 game but wouldn't it make things interesting if this team somehow finishes the season strong (.500+) which would make him a legit candidate? Seems like he is a non-nonsense kind of manager who preaches fundamentals which is what he was like when he managed the I-Cubs too.

Finishing .500 or better against this schedule would raise some eyes I think:

2 more @ Washington
3 @ Cincy
3 vs Pirates (who they are 3-9 against somehow this season!)
3 vs Mets
3 @ Milwauke
3 @ St. Louis, 3 vs St. Louis
3 @ Florida
3 vs Giants
4 @ San Diego
3 @ Houston

That makes about 1/2 of their remaining games against teams still in the playoff hunt too so no easy task to take on.
 
I am not one to call for someone to be fired; however, Jim Hendry has produced the worst results of any General Manager in the history of Sports. The Cubs consistently have a Top 5 payroll and consistently they underachieve. Jim Hendry must go. He has been General Manager of the Cubs since 2002 with absolutely horrible results. Getting rid of the guys on the team that overachieved, were leaders, and had heart such has Ted Lilly, Derek Lee, and Ryan Theriot and keeping Carlos Zambrano and Aramis Ramirez only add to my point. The Cubs need to be re-built from the ground up and Jim Hendry is not the person I want doing it. Go Cyclones and Go Cubs!
 
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