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can pressure regulator at meter be increased to a larger capacity

EvilBetty

EvilBetty

Well-Known Member
Sep 7, 2012
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regulator? the one i have on the house is 275 CFM which equals 281,600 BTUH. Im adding a separate furnace to my upstairs (rental space) as well as a tankless water heater. All these things combined (with cooktops and dryers) will add up to well over my available BTUH is all happen to be running.

downstairs furnace 60,000
upstairs furnace 30,000
tankless water heater 200,000
dryer downstairs 20,000
dryer upstairs 20,000
cooktop downstairs 25,000
cooktop upstairs 25,000

that would be 380,000 BTU total if i converted everything to gas (I like gas and the house is already torn apart, why not)?
 
I believe you can either get a larger meter, or the utility can run you at a higher pressure to deliver more BTUs. Or would you want a second, independent meter off the main line? That would make it easiest to track your usage versus tenant's usage.

FYI I totally agree on gas - after moving to the Pacific Northwest where gas is more common, I like it A LOT more than electric. Especially for cooking.
 
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EvilBetty said:
regulator? the one i have on the house is 275 CFM which equals 281,600 BTUH. Im adding a separate furnace to my upstairs (rental space) as well as a tankless water heater. All these things combined (with cooktops and dryers) will add up to well over my available BTUH is all happen to be running.

downstairs furnace 60,000
upstairs furnace 30,000
tankless water heater 200,000
dryer downstairs 20,000
dryer upstairs 20,000
cooktop downstairs 25,000
cooktop upstairs 25,000

that would be 380,000 BTU total if i converted everything to gas (I like gas and the house is already torn apart, why not)?
Click to expand...

Who are you, Al Gore?
 
Probably depends on the sizing/routing of the piping and the outlet pressure of the pressure reducing valve (which likely you can either adjust or there is typically a spring/oriface inside of it that you can replace to get more flor through your prv. With that being said, do you expect all of them to be running full out at the same time? I would think that you’ll have some redundancy in your furnace capacities even if you are adding one, as well your water heater, dryers and cooktops will likely not al be running at the same time. Typically you can look at the pressure reducing valve and find the manufacturer and mode on it and then reach out to the company to see what the range of the valve is (with the modifications to it). If you need anything else with this, PM me.
 
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Gunnerclone said:
Isn’t it required to have the rental space metered separately?
Click to expand...


Only if you want to direct charge the tenant for the gas they use. I believe Iowa has laws that allow you to charge a percentage of the total if you don’t but the math gets really hairy and tough to prove.
 
380,000 Btuh is about 380 cfh nat gas. If that is on one service, that would probably require an increase in size of the main after the meter. You’re doubling the connected load. Main size depends on the length of your piping system, piping material, pressure drop,etc, and bldg code.
 
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After adding an addition that doubled my heated space they bumped the gas pressure at my house. Plumber arranged with gas company to change the value/regulator. No meter change that I recall. Gas furnace, gas stove, gas water heater, gas drier and gas fireplace, nothing overwhelming but previous houses size was pretty modest (1000SF).
 
Your utility company will change your 1/4psi meter to a 2psi meter. You then have a contractor install 2psi to 1/4psi step down regulators at each appliance. It’s very common. Contact a HVAC contractor and they will walk you through it.
 
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besserheimerphat said:
I believe you can either get a larger meter, or the utility can run you at a higher pressure to deliver more BTUs. Or would you want a second, independent meter off the main line? That would make it easiest to track your usage versus tenant's usage.

FYI I totally agree on gas - after moving to the Pacific Northwest where gas is more common, I like it A LOT more than electric. Especially for cooking.
Click to expand...

Cant add a different meter without rezoning to mixed use. mine is classified as a single family
 
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Gunnerclone said:
Isn’t it required to have the rental space metered separately?
Click to expand...

the upstairs and downstairs are still connected through the house. there is also external separate access to the upper level. as long as i don't add an oven or close off internal access between the two, it can still remain a single family home and not be rezoned as a duplex or mixed use.
 
kbud said:
Your utility company will change your 1/4psi meter to a 2psi meter. You then have a contractor install 2psi to 1/4psi step down regulators at each appliance. It’s very common. Contact a HVAC contractor and they will walk you through it.
Click to expand...
You’d still have to check the pipe sizes with the 2psi scheme, since you are increasing the flow so much. You would also have to vent each appliance regulator to the outside.
 
hobbes said:
You’d still have to check the pipe sizes with the 2psi scheme, since you are increasing the flow so much. You would also have to vent each appliance regulator to the outside.
Click to expand...
What? Why do you need to vent anything? The regulator just keeps pressure to the appliance at 1/4psi regardless of the inlet pressure. Nothing gets vented, otherwise you're just blowing gas that you've paid for into the air. When the appliance is off, the regulator is closed and there is no flow. When the appliance is on, the regulator self-adjusts to provide the desired pressure regardless of flow rate. Anything that goes through the regulator is consumed by the appliance.
 
Cycl1 said:
I would think you would need a new regulator. Call your utility and ask about getting a new one.
Click to expand...

This, when we moved into our house and had a new furnace installed the HVAC company did an assessment before the install and determined the gas meter on the house was already undersized for what was installed in the house. Called Black Hills Energy who provides our gas and they sent someone out who confirmed this and installed a new meter free of charge.

Would suggest you work with an HVAC company to assess what you are trying to do and they should be able determine what you need.
 
Are you doing this work yourself? When I had a tankless water heater installed, I had a plumber do it. He had to do line sizing calculations which had to meet city code and be approved by the city inspector. I needed a larger meter and larger pipe downstream of the meter to the side of the house where the new water heater was installed. In other words, if some jurisdictional code is going to be involved, you may need more than just a bigger meter/higher pressure.
 
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clone4life82 said:
Probably depends on the sizing/routing of the piping and the outlet pressure of the pressure reducing valve (which likely you can either adjust or there is typically a spring/oriface inside of it that you can replace to get more flor through your prv. With that being said, do you expect all of them to be running full out at the same time? I would think that you’ll have some redundancy in your furnace capacities even if you are adding one, as well your water heater, dryers and cooktops will likely not al be running at the same time. Typically you can look at the pressure reducing valve and find the manufacturer and mode on it and then reach out to the company to see what the range of the valve is (with the modifications to it). If you need anything else with this, PM me.
Click to expand...

tried to PM but this message was apparently too long:

I had an additional question and you clearly know more about this than i do. I know how to fit pipes together, but doing it the most efficient way and figuring out appropriate pipe sizes and most efficient routes is getting a little confusing.

The instructions on the model of tankless water heater (found online) didn't specifically say it needed a dedicated gas line for it but it sure seems like a bad idea to have a 200k btu appliance running on a leg shared with other appliances. especially if it is before other appliances on that same leg. I would assume that if the water heater is running, any other appliance downstream from the water heater would be lacking in sufficient supply of gas as it consumes a copious amount.. am in correct in this assumption? there are already 4 individual legs running off of the main. 3 of which were done before i moved in. Main is
1-1/4"

1. 3/4" dedicated line to main floor cooktop
2. 3/4" dedicated line to main floor furnace
3. 1/2" dedicated line to main floor dryer

I added a new 3/4" line to supply gas all upstairs appliances:
A) upstairs furnace
B) upstairs cooktop
C) upstairs dryer

Right after running the gas upstairs, my downstairs water heater crapped out and thus the questions about all this gas line stuff
 
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