Iowa: Game Thoughts

[BCClone]

I 100% think JJ signed thinking he had a chance to start. Did he sign thinking he was guaranteed? No.

But i also don't think a kid with many power conference offers and the only reason we have a top 45 class is going to be happy sitting next to another freshman, who you're probably physically more talented then, watching the offense probably struggle all year long.

If you are a high level competitor, that is not going to sit well with you.

I don't think we go to a bowl game with Rocco. I don't know that we do with JJ. BUT - he gives us something Rocco doesn't in terms of an opportunity to throw the ball down field.

But Rocco is limited arm strength wise. We saw it on the throw to Higgins where he threw it low, threw it inside and gave the DB a chance. We saw it on the pick six because that's a long throw, and unless you have a strong arm, that's a very dangerous throw. Even with a strong arm thats a risky throw. When you don't have a strong arm, the dangerous increases exponentially.


Brock didn't have the strongest arm. But we had Montgomery, and we had Breece Hall. We had Kolar, Allen, X, etc. We had dudes that made plays for Brock.

So its nots Rocco's fault. But when you are a QB with average to adequate arm strength, and your team lacks dudes to help you, the offense is going to be incredibly limited. And we are.


And I don't think its fair to tell the defense , if you give up 17 points, we may not win. Or to tell the kicker, you miss 1-2 FG's, we may not win.


Rocco has a much higher floor than JJ. JJ has the higher ceiling. And when you have a low ceiling potential on offense...where's the improvement coming from? You increase the chance of drops, penalties, turnovers, when you have to have an 6-10 play drive every single time. That's why we're good on defense. That's why Iowa's good on defense. That's literally what every defense in the history of football wants. Give up the underneath stuff, rally to the ball and wait for a mistake.

What have we seen vs Iowa and even UNI? Allow the underneath stuff, rally, tackle, and make you do it 8 more times.




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and again, if I'm a kid, not just JJ. But if I'm a young kid - outside of linemen - if I am a young, skill position on offense, watching this offense look as painful as a wisdom tooth removal without pain medicine... and I never get a chance -

why should I believe I will next year? If the kid ahead of is back. Because if I do, that kid probably leaves and that's fair. And if I don't, I leave. Its college athletics today. If we were good on offense, then its easy to sell a redshirt.

But when we're not... and everyone can see that - I t hink its A LOT harder selling a redshirt when you can look out and believe, I'm better that guy.

So you think JJ signed believing he was going to beat out a starter in his fourth year and was also a 4 star?

 

[stewart092284]

Kohl can't beat out Becht, who couldn't beat out Dekkers, so...... Dekkers last year was better than what either Becht or Kohl have shown so far.

So based on that logic if I date someone who dumped someone for me then I'm better looking that her ex boyfriend?

Uhm, that's not how life works.

Dekkers was much more experienced as a 2 year back up, had been in the system and then started. where Rocco was brand new.

This year, Rocco had barely played, so the experience was almost the same as JJ's. Not quite, a year older, but in terms of game time, they were more or less equal. Dekkers had much more game time than Rocco and in theory, had learned from Brock. So, not an apple to apple comparison at all

 

[Kinch]

Can't compare the two.

Last year's drive - yes.
Yesterday's , yes, good to see, but it was against the - zero big play, vanilla almost prevent not prevent defense.

When we had to have a drive to tie the game - not so much. Iowa started playing - we've won, just don't give up the big play - at 20-3.

Totally disagree. great defenses shut the door, not push it wide open. And leaving our guy in single coverage on the touchdown throw. That’s stupid.

 

[stewart092284]

So you think JJ signed believing he was going to beat out a starter in his fourth year and was also a 4 star?

Yes. If you're a good athlete who believes in himself then yes.

you think Proctor went to Alabama thinking he might redshirt?
You think high level recruits go anywhere thinking to themselves " yeah, i won't play this year but that's ok"

No. No they don't.


If kids signed thinking they weren't going to play, why does the transfer portal exist? Why'd Howard Brown leave? Why'd any other quarterback leave?


What makes a good athlete? Believing in themselves, rightly or wrongly. NO ONE signs thinking they want to sit on the bench. For 1 year, 2 years, 3 years. No body does that.

This idea that kids sign thinking its okay they aren't going to play is an idea rooted in the pre transfer portal. That's not modern college sports. I wish it was, because I miss the old days too. But you need to recognize what's going in collegiate athletics.

That is not the reality. You think our freshman linebacker came in thinking he was going to start right away? Probably not. But he believed in himself. Or Sama signed thinking he'd play right away with Sanders, Norton, Brock ahead of him? Nope. But he believed he would. And he did.



As an athlete the one thing you have is your belief in yourself. And when you're told to sit on the bench that belief gets challenged. And in today's world, that's why so many kids transfer.


The era of wait your time is dead. Y'all need to recognize that. Its dead, its never going to come back. Ever. Maybe JJ stays. Maybe he won't.

But across the board, that era is dead. And acting like its not, is why Clemson is failing. Because they haven't adjust to the new reality. And the same thing will happen to Iowa State. And any other program that doesn't acknowledge the new reality.

 

[stewart092284]

So you think JJ signed believing he was going to beat out a starter in his fourth year and was also a 4 star?

a 4 star recruit who went 4-8 and had serious turnover issues? Yes.

 

[BCClone]

Yes. If you're a good athlete who believes in himself then yes.

you think Proctor went to Alabama thinking he might redshirt?
You think high level recruits go anywhere thinking to themselves " yeah, i won't play this year but that's ok"

No. No they don't.


If kids signed thinking they weren't going to play, why does the transfer portal exist? Why'd Howard Brown leave? Why'd any other quarterback leave?


What makes a good athlete? Believing in themselves, rightly or wrongly. NO ONE signs thinking they want to sit on the bench. For 1 year, 2 years, 3 years. No body does that.

This idea that kids sign thinking its okay they aren't going to play is an idea rooted in the pre transfer portal. That's not modern college sports. I wish it was, because I miss the old days too. But you need to recognize what's going in collegiate athletics.

That is not the reality. You think our freshman linebacker came in thinking he was going to start right away? Probably not. But he believed in himself. Or Sama signed thinking he'd play right away with Sanders, Norton, Brock ahead of him? Nope. But he believed he would. And he did.



As an athlete the one thing you have is your belief in yourself. And when you're told to sit on the bench that belief gets challenged. And in today's world, that's why so many kids transfer.


The era of wait your time is dead. Y'all need to recognize that. Its dead, its never going to come back. Ever. Maybe JJ stays. Maybe he won't.

But across the board, that era is dead. And acting like its not, is why Clemson is failing. Because they haven't adjust to the new reality. And the same thing will happen to Iowa State. And any other program that doesn't acknowledge the new reality.

Then how do any teams have players on their roster who didn’t start as freshmen who aren’t transfers. I don’t believe in the wait your turn, but some players are willing to realize that the game is faster than they realized immediately and will take a year to adjust. Also, Sama originally signed as a Dback then was flipped to a RB later so he came in looking at Tampa

 

[Stormin]

Yes. If you're a good athlete who believes in himself then yes.

you think Proctor went to Alabama thinking he might redshirt?
You think high level recruits go anywhere thinking to themselves " yeah, i won't play this year but that's ok"

No. No they don't.


If kids signed thinking they weren't going to play, why does the transfer portal exist? Why'd Howard Brown leave? Why'd any other quarterback leave?


What makes a good athlete? Believing in themselves, rightly or wrongly. NO ONE signs thinking they want to sit on the bench. For 1 year, 2 years, 3 years. No body does that.

This idea that kids sign thinking its okay they aren't going to play is an idea rooted in the pre transfer portal. That's not modern college sports. I wish it was, because I miss the old days too. But you need to recognize what's going in collegiate athletics.

That is not the reality. You think our freshman linebacker came in thinking he was going to start right away? Probably not. But he believed in himself. Or Sama signed thinking he'd play right away with Sanders, Norton, Brock ahead of him? Nope. But he believed he would. And he did.



As an athlete the one thing you have is your belief in yourself. And when you're told to sit on the bench that belief gets challenged. And in today's world, that's why so many kids transfer.


The era of wait your time is dead. Y'all need to recognize that. Its dead, its never going to come back. Ever. Maybe JJ stays. Maybe he won't.

But across the board, that era is dead. And acting like its not, is why Clemson is failing. Because they haven't adjust to the new reality. And the same thing will happen to Iowa State. And any other program that doesn't acknowledge the new reality.

Reality is that few freshman are immediate starters. JJ is not ready. But he is more ready today than he was yesterday. Most freshmen have a learning curve. And they realize that.

 

[clonedude]

OMG people... playing JJ wouldn't have made any difference. We would have still called all the same stupid plays.

Did you all see JJ play last week? It was beyond ugly. He was a deer in headlights, and was afraid to throw the ball... so he just took off and ran.

Yesterday's debacle had nothing to do with who was playing QB.

We also found out yesterday that it turns out that UNI is beyond bad.... they are total crap. We really didn't accomplish much of anything by beating them in our first game.

 

[cyclone1209]

OMG people... playing JJ wouldn't have made any difference. We would have still called all the same stupid plays.

Did you all see JJ play last week? It was beyond ugly. He was a deer in headlights, and was afraid to throw the ball... so he just took off and ran.

Yesterday's debacle had nothing to do with who was playing QB.

We also found out yesterday that it turns out that UNI is beyond bad.... they are total crap. We really didn't accomplish much of anything by beating them in our first game.

I want to see what we have in different WR's.

Kai Black, Beni Ngoyi, Campbell and staff have raved about these guys this summer. But they haven't played a snap yet.

Our offense is the worst in the conference so I would argue there's no downside to trying different guys.

 

[clonedude]

I want to see what we have in different WR's.

Kai Black, Beni Ngoyi, Campbell and staff have raved about these guys this summer. But they haven't played a snap yet.

Our offense is the worst in the conference so I would argue there's no downside to trying different guys.

Agree wholeheartedly. But we still wouldn't have let them run any deep routes.

But where is Gaines? Essex? Ngoyi? Black? Would it be so bad to give them a shot?

I really like Bitter... should be getting him the ball more. He seems to get open, and catches everything. But instead we throw it to Noel all the time and watch him continually drop it. But he's a great guy, so he plays all the time.

I really believe that Noel is scared out there. That's why he drops so many balls, and chooses to not field any punt or kickoff that doesn't come almost right to him. On one of his catches over the middle yesterday, there wasn't a Hawk player within 5 yds of him, but he juggled it and nearly dropped it because you could tell he was thinking he was going to get lit up. After juggling it, he secured it and turned around, only to find nobody was near him, so he started running forward. Notice how he'll also run right out of bounds if he catches it anywhere near the sideline. Instead of trying to juke anyone and get some extra yards, he runs right out of bounds before anyone gets near him. He's scared to death out there. You simply cannot play the game of football that way.

 

[Gunnerclone]

I don't. Because what changes?

That makes zero sense. You tell kid, well, you're not ready so redshirt, but you're not ready compared to a kid whose never started a game, but until that other kid has started 12 games, while you start zero and play zero meaningful football for an entire year, and then you'll beat out an experienced, proven quarterback whose developed a relationship with the team - if this was JJ coming in when Brock was a junior or even Dekkers was still playing - then I think that holds water. But not when you're the same class playing time wise and he's almost as inexperienced as you are.

when you didn't beat him out when you basically starting at the same point as him? Now you tell him he has a better chance of beating him out when Rocco has a full year starting and JJ's running the scout team?


That logic makes zero sense. I'm sure that is what the staff will tell him. I don't doubt that. But if I'm the kid, I'm calling BS because there is ZERO logic in believing that.. If I didn't get an opportunity when I started running the race even, why would I believe you that I have a chance after the other guy has a 12 game head start?

That makes zero sense from the kid's POV. From the program's POV, it makes all the sense in the world. but from a player's ? It makes zero. Because allegedly there was competition this year... and you went other guy who was also inexperienced and never started a game.

And I think Rocco will better next year from having played a season against a real defense. Where JJ still won't have. So I don't think that argument is going to make sense to kids in todays world. I just don't. And I understand why.

It’s basically we get a head start on the future or we delay the future with a possibility of Kohl leaving and we’re right back here for the next two years. Easy choice for me.

 

[Gunnerclone]

Kohl can't beat out Becht, who couldn't beat out Dekkers, so...... Dekkers last year was better than what either Becht or Kohl have shown so far.

<in Matt Campbell’s opinion> which I’m not sure where his head is at right now. Too many things not making sense for too long.

 

[clonedude]

I also want to say this.... if Iowa had gotten down 17-0 yesterday... even BF would have opened it up at least somewhat. He already was taking more shots downfield than we were... and they were up all game. It's really bad when your team is actually MORE conservative than KF/BF's offense.

But had Iowa gotten down 17... I guarantee you that they would have opened up their offense a lot more. But KF actually believes that winning football games is important... he's openly said that winning is what it's about.

 

[MeowingCows]

If I was an Iowa fan I would ask how much was McNamara paid to come to Iowa? First play, he totally misses a wide open receiver who got went unguarded down the middle of the field. Okay, quarterbacks sometimes miss wide open receivers. But late in the game, he overshot another wide open receiver on a drive that would have put the game away and kept Iowa State in it. Rocco, making his first power 5 start, I felt, got a better as the game wore on. McNamara is a step up from a bad quarterback, but at one time he was 2-11 on third down plays. The only thing that will save him is their weak schedule.

McNamara missed at least 3 for-sure TDs from my count. One on a whiffed throw, and two others where a coverage busted downfield that he didn't see. He was wholly unimpressive. I didn't feel like we were getting lots of pressure and making him run for his life or anything, either -- it was just him

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

If I was an Iowa fan I would ask how much was McNamara paid to come to Iowa? First play, he totally misses a wide open receiver who got went unguarded down the middle of the field. Okay, quarterbacks sometimes miss wide open receivers. But late in the game, he overshot another wide open receiver on a drive that would have put the game away and kept Iowa State in it. Rocco, making his first power 5 start, I felt, got a better as the game wore on. McNamara is a step up from a bad quarterback, but at one time he was 2-11 on third down plays. The only thing that will save him is their weak schedule.

Totally agree about the EIU QB, he is decent, but not anywhere close to an NFL type of QB. Yes, he is better than what they had last year, but that guy was the worst QB on a power five team.
Can we also get off the 4/5-star garbage, none of that matters now, they are in college not in high school, some of them will do well and others won't. Hell, the EIU QB the last couple of years was a high 4-star QB from California that broke all of Goeff's high school records at the school they both played at. Goeff is having a great career in the NFL, while that kid sucked for 5 years.

In the end, stars tell us what you did in high school, nothing more than that.

 

[flycy]

I like how people watch this crap and still don't see it.

It's over. It's time.

You can't be ISU and have two season like we are going to have.

What is going to change? Matt is still setting philosophy or calling plays.

Our opponents know this.

Our talent is less than before, even when 8 wins was lucky.

It's like we're waiting for Step 3: Profit.

How? Why? From where?

What???? I've seen 30 seasons in a row far worse.

 

[flycy]

I like Rocco. I don't think he's the problem, not at all.

But I would start JJ for one simple reason... and not because he might leave...

he's the first QB since, IDK, a long time, who probably has the arm to consistently push the ball down field. That opens up a play book, opens up the running game and he's not a stiff so he can also move. He'll make young player mistakes but he brings something we don't have and haven't had.

Throwing deep isn't just about having receivers who can run. Obviously that's part of it. But just as important is having a QB who can consistently get the ball down field with pace. And its not like Rocco's a super experienced veteran. Whoever is at QB is going to make young mistakes.

So for me, I'd roll the dice on the higher ceiling kid. Who I think is JJ.

Rocco isn't the problem, not at all. He's not playing badly. I also don't know if he's the solution. I don't know that JJ is either but IMO his physical traits give him a slight edge



I'd also give Gaines time at receiver, just to see what we have. I'd throw to Bitter more because he seems reliable and reminds me a little of Akers. And I'd roll with Sama, Norton and maybe even Hansen at RB / KOR etc.

Basically I'd dub this the year of the freshie on offense at skill position

Since Dekker you mean? He had an arm.

 

[clonedude]

Totally agree about the EIU QB, he is decent, but not anywhere close to an NFL type of QB. Yes, he is better than what they had last year, but that guy was the worst QB on a power five team.
Can we also get off the 4/5-star garbage, none of that matters now, they are in college not in high school, some of them will do well and others won't. Hell, the EIU QB the last couple of years was a high 4-star QB from California that broke all of Goeff's high school records at the school they both played at. Goeff is having a great career in the NFL, while that kid sucked for 5 years.

In the end, stars tell us what you did in high school, nothing more than that.

Totally agree with CW on this one... we NEVER made McNamara uncomfortable and made him test his bad quad. That is just unforgivable. The goal should have been to put tons of pressure on him from the very start and not let up. Instead he just sat back there with all the time in the world while we rushed 3.

When you know someone is nursing an injury in football..... you ALWAYS go after that player. Iowa knocked Sean Clifford, PSU's QB, out of the game a few years ago... and it completely changed the game and Iowa came back and won it. KF admitted after the game they were trying to take him out basically. They didn't do anything illegal at all... just put tons of pressure on him and kept getting hits on him.

 

[clonedude]

Fwiw... take away the one long run for Iowa... they averaged 1.9 yds per rush.

In addition.... Iowa's offense scored 3 total points after the 1st quarter... and won this game.

Kudos to our defense once again. This is all on our coaching staff for not even attempting to go out and win this game on offense. It's really shameful and sad... especially for our players. You are saying to the entire offense that you don't trust them to go out and try to win this game... you just want to protect them from f*cking up.

It's not how you teach competitiveness at all. "Don't go out and try to win this thing.... just don't F up"... and we're going to make sure you don't F up by not trying anything at all!!

 

[BCClone]

Agree wholeheartedly. But we still wouldn't have let them run any deep routes.

But where is Gaines? Essex? Ngoyi? Black? Would it be so bad to give them a shot?

I really like Bitter... should be getting him the ball more. He seems to get open, and catches everything. But instead we throw it to Noel all the time and watch him continually drop it. But he's a great guy, so he plays all the time.

I really believe that Noel is scared out there. That's why he drops so many balls, and chooses to not field any punt or kickoff that doesn't come almost right to him. On one of his catches over the middle yesterday, there wasn't a Hawk player within 5 yds of him, but he juggled it and nearly dropped it because you could tell he was thinking he was going to get lit up. After juggling it, he secured it and turned around, only to find nobody was near him, so he started running forward. Notice how he'll also run right out of bounds if he catches it anywhere near the sideline. Instead of trying to juke anyone and get some extra yards, he runs right out of bounds before anyone gets near him. He's scared to death out there. You simply cannot play the game of football that way.

We threw it to bitter once early that I remember. Dude forgot to close his hands as the ball blew through his hands. Everyone was dropping passes.