The other day at the bar, a friend and I were having a discussion. It revolved around who did a sh*ttier job in their final season at ISU, Wayne or Dan? We thought both were so awful in their last seasons (and Dan in '05) that it was impossible to judge. So here it is, who blew more?
Who sucked more?
- Thread starter ST8BRN
- Start date
Wayne had two dominating guards and he couldn't or wouldn't coach one of them. Wayne got zero development out of his big men over the course of the season. Nobody will ever suck more than Wayne did that final season.
Dan had no left tackle on his line last year. Without a left tackle, your offense will always stink. Dan got about what he should have got win wise out of last year's team.
Dan had no left tackle on his line last year. Without a left tackle, your offense will always stink. Dan got about what he should have got win wise out of last year's team.
While I think Wayne still did less with more, Dan had the talent to beat Iowa, Colorado, and Texas Tech last season. His staff just couldn't coach them to victories.
It's really close but I voted Dan when comparing their final year. They had somewhat equal expectations and equally choked and disappointed. It's hard to make a case that Wayne was much better, but when you think about it, Dan was 4 plays away from being winless.
Wayne hands down. That team had the talent and expirience to be a NCAA tourney team and it got progressively worse as the season went on. It was painfully obvious players were not developing and defense was not being taught. I have never seen a 2-3 zone give up so many wide open layups and 3 pointers. When we go to 2-3 this season it's played a lot better and has forced teams to take perimeter shots. I still like to see man defense any time though, that is about as pure of defense you can play and if taught well is the most fundamental defense as well. We had the athletes to play man defense under Wayne, Clark is a perfect example as he's our best defender this season.
So true. It still boggles my mind that some were defending Wayne before his firing! :no6xn:
How painful was it to watch us give away the Oklahoma game last season? After that, it was hard for me to watch a whole game...
I still have that game on tape. Makes me feel good in knowing the right coaching change was made. After any of the losses we have had this year, I can just pop that tape in and know that Pollard did the right thing for the program.
That one and the A&M game from last year.
Schottenheimer...
He has been doing it for years. He is no one season wonder like Wayne and Mac. Shotty has sucked for the Browns, Cheifs, and Chargers. Wayne has Sucked for long beach state and Iowa State. Dan only sucked a few years with us. So it looks like this.
1. Shotty
2. Wayne
3. Mac
He has been doing it for years. He is no one season wonder like Wayne and Mac. Shotty has sucked for the Browns, Cheifs, and Chargers. Wayne has Sucked for long beach state and Iowa State. Dan only sucked a few years with us. So it looks like this.
1. Shotty
2. Wayne
3. Mac
If you look at the final season only I think Wayne would be worse but when you consider what the coach had done in previous years and where the program was Dan makes a run at him. Tough call for me. I'll take Norv Turner with the Raiders instead.
:rolleyes5cz: LINK Wow I didn't realize just how bad Marty was as a head coach. 205-139-1 career, not to mention the losers that came up under him to be head coaches, what a bum.:rolleyes5cz:
Do any of you remember the preseason all Big 12 football teams before the 2006 season? ISU had the MOST PLAYERS on there of ANY school in the Big 12! This includes OU and Texas!!!! There were two offensive lineman on that list, Stephenson and Brandt. Let's not forget about the Preseason all Big 12 QB, a potential All American in Todd Blythe and even Stevie Hicks made one of the teams. On Defense Curvey and Jackson were both on the list and Jackson was the Kickoff returner on that list. Not to mention that ISU was listed in ALL major publications as having one of the top 3 WR corps in the country last season, being compared with Texas Tech and USC. For crying out loud people, who did less with more, no comparison.
Although Dan was the best guy. His season was hands down the biggest letdown. I honestly thought we had a shot at a good bowl and we probably should have gone winless. Besides Mizzou, the last part of our season was almost comical. Colorado was one of the worst offensive teams in the country and they scored on their first seven possessions...Yikes, injuries or not could anyone on our defense or for that matter on offense even start D-3.
Wow, welcome to CF. Looks like you missed the debate from the Fall (speaking of people defending someone who needed to be relieved of their job duties).
This is true thought provoker, and while Dan caused me more stress than any other coach in history, Marty took the most talented team in the NFL, and coached them to a play-off loss.
I know that it is acceptable, even encouraged, to bash Wayne Morgan on this site. Firing Wayne showed decisivness, while firing Dan made JP trigger happy, but I think that he did an admirable job in a tough situation. Noone can tell me that they weren't excited his first year, when we beat Kansas, Texas, Iowa, etc. Eventually, you reach the level that your ability puts you, and you stay there. Wayne had done this, and he wasn't going to go beyond that, so a change was made, after his third year. It's just ironic to say the least that there was a clear double standard by the fanbase when it came time to be oblective in regards to the football program.
Wayne did nothing wrong during his tenure, the D1 scheduling thing was crap. He took over at a time when the program was ready to crash and burn, and won some games. Was he a great coach, absolutely not, but he went to the NIT final 4, and won a game in the NCAA tournament. He had one down year, so for people to say that his time here was a waste is unfair.
There are reasons that people like to slam Wayne, but basically it seems pretty obvious as to why he will never get any credit as a reasonably effective transitional coach at Iowa State. He was aloof, and while a bright man, he did not express his thoughts as well as other coaches do, so he was bad on the radio. It seems that people here wanted a coach that failed over and over again who tried to deflect attention away from his shortcomings with meaningless statistics, but schmoozed his way into a tenure that no self respecting athletic department would have allowed in the same situation.
I have thought about this many times, as to why it was easy to push a coach out the door, who had won actual big, important games in his 3rd year, but an unwillingness to admit continued shortcomings in another. I have to admit that there some unflattering, to say the least, possible answers.
Darts, I agree with a lot of what you said. Many act like Wayne was the worst coach in the history of ISU but he had as good or better of a 3 year period than a lot of coaches have had here. Especially when you consider that many were predicting a decade long run of some of the worst basketball we were ever going to see in our lives after LE was fired. Do I wish WM was still the coach? No, but that's not really the point.
Wayne is still sitting in Ames without a job if that tells you what people nationally think of his coaching...
I'll give Wayne credit as far as being able to recruit talent. He did find some nice players but he's better suited as the lead recruiter of a program where he primarily focuses on recruiting and doesn't have much responsibility with the coaching aspect as he's proven at 2 schools now he's weak in that area.
I was never much of a fan of Wayne from the start. He was originally told he was no longer was a candidate for the job then after 4 more qualified coached turned down BVD he sort of fell into the job by default. It was more Bruce's fault for creating the undesirable situation otherwise Wayne would have never been hired. It was painfully obvious by season 2 that Wayne's system was not going to work here. The only reason they even made the NCAA that year was because they had a late season run after some underachievment in the first part of the Big 12 season. Then by year 3 the wheels just completely fell off.
We're in better shape now for the future with GMac than we would with Wayne and I can at least be satisfied with our effort in our losses this season where last season the effort was not there and the team gave up in a lot of games.
I'll give Wayne credit as far as being able to recruit talent. He did find some nice players but he's better suited as the lead recruiter of a program where he primarily focuses on recruiting and doesn't have much responsibility with the coaching aspect as he's proven at 2 schools now he's weak in that area.
I was never much of a fan of Wayne from the start. He was originally told he was no longer was a candidate for the job then after 4 more qualified coached turned down BVD he sort of fell into the job by default. It was more Bruce's fault for creating the undesirable situation otherwise Wayne would have never been hired. It was painfully obvious by season 2 that Wayne's system was not going to work here. The only reason they even made the NCAA that year was because they had a late season run after some underachievment in the first part of the Big 12 season. Then by year 3 the wheels just completely fell off.
We're in better shape now for the future with GMac than we would with Wayne and I can at least be satisfied with our effort in our losses this season where last season the effort was not there and the team gave up in a lot of games.
Not only that, but look at the two completely blown North titles the year before. That stings me more than anything!
Now, I am not trying to argue here, I was just offering a thought out there for people to consider.
Having said that, what about this past football season where the team quit on Dan. I know that they pulled it together for his finale, but did you see genuine effort from the Nebraska game on??? I cannot say that I did, but there was no criticism directed at the coach, except for Barney Cotton (even though his team quit on him, somehow Mac was immune from criticism in some people's eyes),for that one. When the basketball team had their problems, it was TOTALLY Wayne's fault.
And don't forget the Dan McCarney job search, calling in whatever favors and connections he could, and all he got was a position coaching job at a school that has been playing D 1 football for less than a decade. So it wasn't like people were knocking down his door
Please, I am NOT here to propogate yet another Mac bashing thread. I just have been bothered by what I am perceiving to be a pretty blatent double standard, and wanted to get it off my chest. Because by the logic that was used by people on this very site over the Fall, there is NO WAY that three years is enough time to evaluate the job that Wayne Morgan did here under trying circumstances.
I am a HUGE Greg McDermott fan, and am thrilled that he is our coach, this is just something that I have thought about over the past few months. Since this is a site for all things Iowa State athletics, it seemed like a good place to bring this up.
Well Dan lost his job just like Wayne did so in the end they both lost their jobs for poor seasons. The 1 thing Dan did that Wayne never did (granted Mac had 4 times the seasons that Wayne did to do it) was take the program to a level it was never at before. Wayne had big shoes to fill following a national coach of the year and a guy that won 2 Big 12 titles and an Elite 8 team. Also a coach that a lot of fans did not want to see go. Different situations really.
I would not say Mac's job search was that bad. First off at least he found some kind of job, Wayne must not be as connected because you'd think he'd at least been hired as an assistant somewhere now unless he's refusing to take anything less than a head coaching job. The school Dan went to won it's first bowl game last year and I think they've only been D1 since 2001? They've assembled a pretty good coaching staff there and could be an up and coming program which is not a bad place to be if you want to land another head coaching job.
I would not say Mac's job search was that bad. First off at least he found some kind of job, Wayne must not be as connected because you'd think he'd at least been hired as an assistant somewhere now unless he's refusing to take anything less than a head coaching job. The school Dan went to won it's first bowl game last year and I think they've only been D1 since 2001? They've assembled a pretty good coaching staff there and could be an up and coming program which is not a bad place to be if you want to land another head coaching job.