Realignment Megathread (All The Moves)

[keepngoal]

So what sports will having a west coast road trip or two a season be an issue?

There are just a handful of sports where every conference team is on the schedule each year: Volleyball, MBB, WBB, Softball & Baseball. With 16, 20 or 24 team conferences, maybe it's not important to play every school each season.

I bet there will be travel partners and schedule structure similar to what Pac12 does today. So an ISU road trip to Arizona to play UA & ASU for Th/Sat games. That same season Utah teams come to Ames. Even if the Big12 adds a couple other West Coast schools, that would be 2 long road trips every other year. Doesn't seem like a big deal over an 8-10 week period.

If costs become an issue, then the Big12 could get creative. They already do that with Volleyball where we don't play teams home & road, but back-to-back days either home or road. If playing all the other teams each year is important, maybe 3 or 4 Big12 teams come to one school's campus to play each other.

The Big12 could even use not playing every school each season to its advantage when it comes to conference tournament time. Promote east vs. west or north vs. south match-ups.

I think the culmination of increased travel for all sports (in time/length) had/has the inter webs chatting about this concern.

Personally, I think it’s naive to think time and money needed for athlete wouldn’t increase, and that is before the lag (EC will suffer most in this, imo).

 

[isucy86]

LMFAO!!! VT is G5 level. Virginia is even worse.

(2022 Viewership for those that didnt understand!!)
View attachment 116032
View attachment 116033

Whats worse is those Virginia schools have P5 level TV promotion and availability. The G5 schools have much less promotion and availability for their media content. So it is even worse because with their P5 level Media, and playing teams like Clemson and FSU to bring up their averages, they still can only manage G5 level viewership. SAD

So what is your source for viewership data?

SportsMediaWatch.com shows 2022 viewership for Virginia Tech games:

Old Dominion - 334k on ESPNU
W Virginia - 1.60M on ESPN Thu night
NC State - 1.23M on ESPN Thu night

My math shows Virginia Tech average attendance of 1.05M vs your 264K. Are your numbers calculation averages using zero if viewership isn't published?

I hate to keep disagreeing with what you post, but aggregating viewership data is misleading. Especially if you cite sources that use zero viewers for games that aren't tracked.

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

For further reference when comparing to the previous page of VT,UVA, Due etc stats on VIEWERSHIP. ie TV viewership average!!!

I post a range to show its not just a one off. I get it a lot can depend on who they are playing what channel it is on, when etc. But saying that G5 has better boost in viewership because of 1 P5 game, doesnt make sense. Especially when the rest of their games are on G5 media, and they are surrounded by G5.

2022 VIEWERSHIP
View attachment 116040

I never said it was entirely based on one game, but you have to factor in that a lot of the G5 schools are playing on the week nights, with little or no other games going on.

The ACC games are being shown on the ACC network on Saturday, or streamed, when there are plenty of games on TV.
So just to be clear your position is that G5 schools like Toledo have more fans than programs like VT and Virginia and other ACC schools based on your one data point on a 2 year average TV ratings. Even those ACC schools are drawing 2 to 3 times the number of fans at their games each week. That is what you are debating here?

 

[Big Daddy Kang]

Correct quote, “ There are lies, damned lies, and statistics”. GYST

People can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. Forty percent of people know that!

Homer

 

[CascadeClone]

Those SMU/BC basketball games in front of 800 people on a Tuesday night in Boston are going to RULE!!

Whoa whoa whoa... is it free pizza and bobblehead night? Crazy!

They'll have to hire a janitor to clean up after that game!

 

[Gonzo]

It’s not so much the schools that are dumb, but the whole situation - where they’re put into these corners and basically grab at straws for survival. And thats all at the whim of the networks/media
providers, who’d happily blow up everything we love about college football if it got them another half share in the ratings. That’s what’s dumb.

Although I do posit that a “conference” that includes schools in Tallahassee, Boston, Raleigh, Dallas, and Palo Alto is indeed “dumb.”

Well I don't disagree there. The ironic thing is that the phenomenon of "conference raiding" was ushered in by the ACC. Now they're the ones who stand to lose big once the GoR is up.

Short of the SEC, all the major conferences have ridiculous geographic footprints now.

 

[2speedy1]

So what is your source for viewership data?

SportsMediaWatch.com shows 2022 viewership for Virginia Tech games:

Old Dominion - 334k on ESPNU
W Virginia - 1.60M on ESPN Thu night
NC State - 1.23M on ESPN Thu night

My math shows Virginia Tech average attendance of 1.05M vs your 264K. Are your numbers calculation averages using zero if viewership isn't published?

I hate to keep disagreeing with what you post, but aggregating viewership data is misleading. Especially if you cite sources that use zero viewers for games that aren't tracked.

The links have literally been posted page after page. its not picking 1 night its an average of the entire season.

But since apparently no one has seen the links posted multiple times in the last 24 hours I will post them again.
And I know its not a perfect metric, but it is a tool. The issue becomes when you look at teams like Ohio State that have all or most games on major time slots vs those that have all or most on secondary slots. But beyond the top 10-20 most teams have a mix of various slots.

2021


2022


2015-19 average


And for good measure SIs value list that takes several aspects weighted the same. For the record this actually shows VT and UVA much higher, even higher then that WVU school. When other factors are added.

Ranking all 69 Power 5 schools by college sports value - Sports Illustrated

If the college sports started over, who would be most coveted? We break it down with a formula.

www.si.com

Data is Data, take it for what it is. It is not a perfect Apples to Apples comparison, but you will not find links to that, you would need to go to every team and game and compare each media slot, 1 at a time. And sorry I dont know too many people doing that. And frankly you cant just pick 1 game and and say that a good representation. That 1 game may be against Notre Dame, or similar, vs a game against Duke for instance. But an average at leasts averages the high demand games with the low demand games. Whats more yes I realize some count as zero, again almost every team outside the top few have zero games and should average out. If you can find me numbers that dont have the zero games factored I will be all for it.

 

[2speedy1]

I never said it was entirely based on one game, but you have to factor in that a lot of the G5 schools are playing on the week nights, with little or no other games going on.

The ACC games are being shown on the ACC network on Saturday, or streamed, when there are plenty of games on TV.
So just to be clear your position is that G5 schools like Toledo have more fans than programs like VT and Virginia and other ACC schools based on your one data point on a 2 year average TV ratings. Even those ACC schools are drawing 2 to 3 times the number of fans at their games each week. That is what you are debating here?

I dont think I have ever claimed that. This is just an average of viewership...what media people care about....has nothing to do with the number of fans.

You are reading way to much into what I am saying.

 

[isucy86]

I think the culmination of increased travel for all sports (in time/length) had/has the inter webs chatting about this concern.

Personally, I think it’s naive to think time and money needed for athlete wouldn’t increase, and that is before the lag (EC will suffer most in this, imo).

But time away has always existed for student-athletes. It's been 20 years, I worked at a school where the baseball team missed 12 school days during the spring semester. Another team in the league (nationally rated) missed around 30 school days over the spring semester. If missed school time or traveling across time zones is a concern from a student-welfare perspective, then it can be managed/regulated at a conference level. I agree wholeheartedly that minimizing miss class time should be a priority.

Also when schedules are created, common sense should be considered- aka ASU shouldn't fly to WVU and play on FOX Big Noon games. Likewise, WVU shouldn't fly to ASU and play ESPN late night games with a 10:30p kickoff. With 16 or more teams in a conference, sometimes that helps solve problems.

 

[keepngoal]

But time away has always existed for student-athletes. It's been 20 years, I worked at a school where the baseball team missed 12 school days during the spring semester. Another team in the league (nationally rated) missed around 30 school days over the spring semester. If missed school time or traveling across time zones is a concern from a student-welfare perspective, then it can be managed/regulated at a conference level. I agree wholeheartedly that minimizing miss class time should be a priority.

Also when schedules are created, common sense should be considered- aka ASU shouldn't fly to WVU and play on FOX Big Noon games. Likewise, WVU shouldn't fly to ASU and play ESPN late night games with a 10:30p kickoff. With 16 or more teams in a conference, sometimes that helps solve problems.

Time away increases with the EC to/from WC and visa-versa, no?

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

The links have literally been posted page after page. its not picking 1 night its an average of the entire season.

But since apparently no one has seen the links posted multiple ties in the last 24 hours I will post them again.
And I know its not a perfect metric, but it is a tool. The issue becomes when you look at teams like Ohio State that have all or most games on major time slots vs those that have all or most on secondary slots. But beyond the top 10-20 most teams have a mix of various slots.

2021


2022


2015-19 average


And for good measure SIs value list that takes several aspects weighted the same. For the record this actually shows VT and UVA much higher, even higher then that WVU school. When other factors are added.

Ranking all 69 Power 5 schools by college sports value - Sports Illustrated

If the college sports started over, who would be most coveted? We break it down with a formula.

www.si.com

Data is Data, take it for what it is. It is not a perfect Apples to Apples comparison, but you will not find links to that, you would need to go to every team and game and compare each media slot, 1 at a time. And sorry I dont know too many people doing that. And frankly you cant just pick 1 game and and say that a good representation. That 1 game may be against Notre Dame, or similar, vs a game against Duke for instance. But an average at leasts averages the high demand games with the low demand games. Whats more yes I realize some count as zero, again almost every team outside the top few have zero games and should average out. If you can find me numbers that dont have the zero games factored I will be all for it.

The data is not the data if as isucy86 pointed out if those games that did not show data were given a zero for that week. If a game is streamed on the ESPN+, there are no data currently from those games as to how many people watched them. When you compile the season as a whole it makes a huge difference in the overall average in whether you add a zero for those games or just leave them blank and use a smaller number instead of the 12 game schedule. Just like if one games numbers are not reported, you cannot just add a zero to the average because it distorts and lowers the overall average.

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[Cloneon]

The data is not the data if as isucy86 pointed out if those games that did not show data were given a zero for that week. If a game is streamed on the ESPN+, there are no data currently from those games as to how many people watched them. When you compile the season as a whole it makes a huge difference in the overall average in whether you add a zero for those games or just leave them blank and use a smaller number instead of the 12 game schedule. Just like if one games numbers are not reported, you cannot just add a zero to the average because it distorts and lowers the overall average.

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isucy86​

Here is the catch. ESPN knows. Read into that for what's it worth. Also, therein lies the root of the 'manipulation' of the numbers and for whatever reason is anyone's guess ... except ESPN.

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

I dont think I have ever claimed that. This is just an average of viewership...what media people care about....has nothing to do with the number of fans.

You are reading way to much into what I am saying.

What I am reading is that you are claiming that G5 schools like Toledo are drawing better numbers on TV than VT and other ACC schools, while at the same time having crowds of less than 20,000 while a school like VT averaged more than ISU at 65K per game.

There has to be a reason for the gap, and if they are putting a zero if there is no data for that week would help explain it. The data is not correct because of it and is giving out what is not true.

 

[keepngoal]

What I am reading is that you are claiming that G5 schools like Toledo are drawing better numbers on TV than VT and other ACC schools, while at the same time having crowds of less than 20,000 while a school like VT averaged more than ISU at 65K per game.

There has to be a reason for the gap, and if they are putting a zero if there is no data for that week would help explain it. The data is not correct because of it and is giving out what is not true.

Who Toledo plays in preseason may skew the numbers?

 

[isucy86]

The links have literally been posted page after page. its not picking 1 night its an average of the entire season.

But since apparently no one has seen the links posted multiple times in the last 24 hours I will post them again.
And I know its not a perfect metric, but it is a tool. The issue becomes when you look at teams like Ohio State that have all or most games on major time slots vs those that have all or most on secondary slots. But beyond the top 10-20 most teams have a mix of various slots.

2021


2022


2015-19 average


And for good measure SIs value list that takes several aspects weighted the same. For the record this actually shows VT and UVA much higher, even higher then that WVU school. When other factors are added.

Ranking all 69 Power 5 schools by college sports value - Sports Illustrated

If the college sports started over, who would be most coveted? We break it down with a formula.

www.si.com

Data is Data, take it for what it is. It is not a perfect Apples to Apples comparison, but you will not find links to that, you would need to go to every team and game and compare each media slot, 1 at a time. And sorry I dont know too many people doing that. And frankly you cant just pick 1 game and and say that a good representation. That 1 game may be against Notre Dame, or similar, vs a game against Duke for instance. But an average at leasts averages the high demand games with the low demand games. Whats more yes I realize some count as zero, again almost every team outside the top few have zero games and should average out. If you can find me numbers that dont have the zero games factored I will be all for it.

Data isn't data. In your case you keep linking bad analysis.

Obviously you don't understand the data you keep linking. It's pretty apparent the link you keep using uses zero viewers for games that aren't tracked. ACC Network games aren't reported, Pac12 Network games aren't reported. ESPN+ games aren't reported. The people putting together the analysis you cite are either lazy, stupid or have an agenda- maybe all 3.

If you want accurate data find better sources or check out SportsMediaWatch to get specific game viewership #'s.

 

[2speedy1]

Here is the info from FSU, it doesnt include ACCN, which skews these higher because, those would obviously be much lower.

But this is what you want, none of those included.

 

[2speedy1]

Data isn't data. In your case you keep linking bad analysis.

Obviously you don't understand the data you keep linking. It's pretty apparent the link you keep using uses zero viewers for games that aren't tracked. ACC Network games aren't reported, Pac12 Network games aren't reported. ESPN+ games aren't reported. The people putting together the analysis you cite are either lazy, stupid or have an agenda- maybe all 3.

If you want accurate data find better sources or check out SportsMediaWatch to get specific game viewership #'s.

I linked my sources... maybe you can link a source with better info. Instead of just saying I am wrong with no data sources to back it up.

I post a lot of sources and data to back my perspectives up.

You rarely post anything but speculation, with no sources or data to back it up.

But you do you.

 

[2speedy1]

The data is not the data if as isucy86 pointed out if those games that did not show data were given a zero for that week. If a game is streamed on the ESPN+, there are no data currently from those games as to how many people watched them. When you compile the season as a whole it makes a huge difference in the overall average in whether you add a zero for those games or just leave them blank and use a smaller number instead of the 12 game schedule. Just like if one games numbers are not reported, you cannot just add a zero to the average because it distorts and lowers the overall average.

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Got a better analysis? Link? Data? Love to see it.

 

[nfrine]

Interesting article on how little success Stanford has had in Football/Basketball.

But Stanford kicked ToE's behind in the Rose Bowl. That proves they are a superpower...right?

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

Got a better analysis? Link? Data? Love to see it.

I provided you links to attendance, plus earlier to TV ratings for 21/22. I and others have explained why the data you are provided is tainted, but you still are pushing forward with trying to get to believe that Toledo and other MAC schools have a larger TV ratings than schools drawing 2 to 3 times as many fans too their games. Plus, I guess I have common sense, and can see through a BS stat when I see it.