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Production from upperclassmen...

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Clone_12

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2006
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This is the percentage of each team's ppg coming from upperclassmen (juniors and seniors), using only upperclassmen off of the top 8 players list cybsball20 was so kind to provide...
If you believe losing Jacy Holloway has the same impact on a team as losing Dedric Willoughby (they both played similar minutes per game)...this is not for you.

Ranked from least production to most...

1. IOWA STATE 26%
2. Colorado 29%
3. Kansas 30%
4. Kansas State 37%
5. Texas Tech 38%
6. Oklahoma 46%
7. Oklahoma State 56%
8. Baylor 68%
9. Missouri 69%
10. Nebraska 70%
11. Texas A&M 72%
12. Texas 74%
 
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Here's a similar stat through Tuesday's games using a different methodology. The methodology is the same as I used for minutes per game in the "youth" thread (http://www.cyclonefanatic.com/forum/big-xii-conference/49650-youth-big-12-updated.html#post882460). Higher numbers mean more points coming from older players.

SCHOOL... ALL....... CONF
 BAY...... 3.01...... 2.94
 NEB...... 2.93...... 2.93
 TX....... 2.96...... 2.87
 OKST..... 2.78...... 2.87
 AM....... 2.78...... 2.77
 MO....... 2.76...... 2.70
 TT....... 2.61...... 2.66
 OKL...... 2.42...... 2.60
 KSTATE... 2.37...... 2.45
 ISU...... 2.27...... 2.22
 KS....... 1.99...... 2.04
 COL...... 2.05...... 2.01
 
On the surface this seems rather interesting, but if you correlate the productivity of the upperclassmen to Big 12 wins there is a very weak non-substantial correlation.

So what does this mean? Well I think it means that teams who don't have productive upperclassmen are showing its possible to have success with young athletes. Unfortunately for us, we aren't getting much production from our upperclassmen and the new young guys aren't picking up the slack.

Hopefully we can get things turned around sometime soon.
 
pthebutcher said:
On the surface this seems rather interesting, but if you correlate the productivity of the upperclassmen to Big 12 wins there is a very weak non-substantial correlation.

So what does this mean? Well I think it means that teams who don't have productive upperclassmen are showing its possible to have success with young athletes. Unfortunately for us, we aren't getting much production from our upperclassmen and the new young guys aren't picking up the slack.

Hopefully we can get things turned around sometime soon.
Click to expand...


Kansas and Oklahoma are showing it...Kansas will ALWAYS win and recruit the best of the best...Oklahoma has the best underclassman in the nation to go with McDonald's All-American Willie Warren...and I'll show Frank Martin a little love...the guy is getting the most out of his solid backcourt...other than that...?
 
Our coach is struggling.... our scheme is horrible and we continue to get beat because of our poor guard play. This slow-*** basketball is not going to cut it in the Big 12.
 
This is not a guarantee that we'll win when we get older (although we should improve)...it's mostly to prove a point to those who seem to think because we have 4 upperclassman in our top 8, we're not a "young" team.
 
Clone_12 said:
This is not a guarantee that we'll win when we get older (although we should improve)...it's mostly to prove a point to those who seem to think because we have 4 upperclassman in our top 8, we're not a "young" team.
Click to expand...

I admit that we get the bulk of our points from sophs. My point was we had a 7 man recruiting class and only one is seeing signifigant minutes with three walk ons (I'm including Thompson because he is a glorified walk on) seein alot of minutes... Other teams are getting their freshmen in and seeing them contribute. Colorado beat us with what 5 freshmen? Iowa and SDSU were both far younger than us and they beat us. Hawaii was a team full of Juco transfers...
 
WalkingCY said:
Our coach is struggling.... our scheme is horrible and we continue to get beat because of our poor guard play. This slow-*** basketball is not going to cut it in the Big 12.
Click to expand...

Why must it be slow or fast?...looking for both, picking our spots to push is ultimately where we want to be.
 
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22 league wins out of the 6 teams getting the least production from upperclassmen (including Kansas who always lands the best of the best recruits, and Oklahoma who has the best underclassman in the country, and also McDonald's All-American Willie Warren...

24 league wins from the 6 teams getting the most out of upperclassmen...

Kansas and Oklahoma account for 15 of the 22 wins...I'd say it holds a little merit...it's no guarantee we'll be great when we get older...but there is definately a difference.
 
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kg-cyclone said:
Why must it be slow or fast?...looking for both, picking our spots to push is ultimately where we want to be.
Click to expand...

Curious, do we not have a secondary break at all? Seems like if we do get a fast break and aren't able to score they just send the ball all the way up top and slow it down again. Can't we naturally transition into some sort of fluid offense instead of coming to a screetching halt?
 
cybsball20 said:
Curious, do we not have a secondary break at all? Seems like if we do get a fast break and aren't able to score they just send the ball all the way up top and slow it down again. Can't we naturally transition into some sort of fluid offense instead of coming to a screetching halt?
Click to expand...

The "smoothness" of the transition into our offense and a secondary break are 2 entirely different things.
 
cybsball20 said:
Curious, do we not have a secondary break at all? Seems like if we do get a fast break and aren't able to score they just send the ball all the way up top and slow it down again. Can't we naturally transition into some sort of fluid offense instead of coming to a screetching halt?
Click to expand...


nope. That is not how Greg wants it done. Brilliant.
 
cybsball20 said:
Curious, do we not have a secondary break at all? Seems like if we do get a fast break and aren't able to score they just send the ball all the way up top and slow it down again. Can't we naturally transition into some sort of fluid offense instead of coming to a screetching halt?
Click to expand...
I think you should watch some tape for two years ago and remind yourself where we were...We are making adjustments as we can. Some teams it is better to push against than others...KSU, Missouri, Neb, Baylor, OSU...are not the teams we want to be turning the basketball game into a track meet with.
 
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khaal53 said:
The "smoothness" of the transition into our offense and a secondary break are 2 entirely different things.
Click to expand...

The secondary break SHOULD you from your fast break offense to your base offense. Roy Williams is a master at this with probably the best secondary break in the counrty. Right now if we don't score on the break we throw it all the way up top and now we have a short shot clock...
 
kg-cyclone said:
I think you should watch some tape for two years ago and remind yourself where we were...We are making adjustments as we can. Some teams it is better to push against than others...KSU, Missouri, Neb, Baylor, OSU...are not the teams we want to be turning the basketball game into a track meet with.
Click to expand...

We should have been able to push against K-State to force them from sending 4 to the offensive glass, but we rarely made them pay...
 
It isn't exactly a necessity. For one thing, it's rare that we aim to fast break, making the secondary break even less likely.
 
cybsball20 said:
We should have been able to push against K-State to force them from sending 4 to the offensive glass, but we rarely made them pay...
Click to expand...

IMO, you are looking a the wrong thing...We were doing a decent job early of pushing off their misses. They went to a press and it changed the game. We missed shots, making it easier for them to push...They made shots making is harder for us to push.
 
cybsball20 said:
We should have been able to push against K-State to force them from sending 4 to the offensive glass, but we rarely made them pay...
Click to expand...

Two things. Tough to leak anyone out when the opponent is crashing the boards hard and more physical/athletic. Without that ability, tough to get a break going.

Second, the Clones don't have the team to break. Besides Garrett, who can really push the ball? You've also got one guy that can run and finish on the break -- unfortunately he is also your best rebounder and will rarely beat anyone down the court.

McDermott's hands are tied by the limitations of his backcourt. I am sure he would have loved for Buckley and/or Eikmeier to be playing more minutes right now, but it just hasn't worked out. It also would have helped to have a guy like Wesley Johnson (or any other athletic wing) to finish on breaks.
 
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