The biggest issue for me with all this is that we've seen 0 proof the admin doesn't think like this too.
Realignment Megathread (All The Moves)
- Thread starter ISUcyclones11
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What’s the proof they do? Even if they say the are committed to the PAC, they literally have to until they aren’t. Texas and Oklahoma were committed to the Big12 until it was announced they were leaving. They were staying through the media contract until it was announced they weren’t.
If Utah is above the Big12, they won’t apply. Meaning they won’t get in. Plain and simple.
I guess I look at Utah in relation to the other Pac teams and their value, vs what their fans want/think or even what other conferences think. You cant tell me strictly from a Value standpoint that Utah brings less value than Colorado, yet some here suggest Colorado instead of Utah. Same with probably both Arizona and AZst. let alone the rest of the PAC10 not named Washington or Oregon.
I agree Utah is looking at "possibly" a growth slowdown, but until that actually comes true, I put that in the column with guesses, wishes, speculations, and horoscopes. One could say the entire Southwest is looking at some serious issues over the next decade if things dont change, but Im not going to base taking schools to the Big 12 today on the possibility that the entire Southwest runs out of water 10 years from now and can no longer sustain people in cities like Salt Lake, LA, Phoenix or SD.
Big 10 has calculated that currently Washington and Oregon, dont bring enough too. But they would bring plenty to the Big 12. Our value threshold is quite a bit lower than the Big 10 at this point.
Probably not making the smartest decision basing your judgement of fan based, based on anonymous posts on free forums.
How many administrations have come out speaking favorably to the possibility of coming to the Big 12? All I have heard if anything is that they are all committed to the Pac10. No one is going to come out and say anything other than that until they are locked in the Big 12.
Hell Ive heard some pretty nasty things in the media that supposedly Colorado said about the Big 12 too. I think AZst said they were not interested at one point or something. Things change, people have to say things show unity etc to the Pac but then the next thing they are gone.
All I can say is when you look at any of these things that remember, TX and OU were all about the big 12 too until they werent, USC and UCLA were pushing the Pac12 up until they werent, and Cheezdick was "firmly entrenched" one day and gone the next.
Is Utah the fastest growing in pure population or percentage? I’m not mistaken, they are about the same population as Iowa. The one thing that helps Utah schools is BYU is the school for Mormons so they have a national presence with that. Would we bring in KState if we had Kansas?
You know someone in the Utah Administration? Otherwise no one knows what they are thinking.
Utah is a good team, who’s usually ranked in a P5 conference. Ranked teams bring better time slots and eyeballs. Better chance of winning a playoff game(in the new 12 team playoff). We don’t have the B1G network, people are too caught up in why the B1G expanded the way they did. That doesn’t work for the Big12. Winning programs matter. Playoff wins matter. Utah has a better chance of winning a playoff game than SDSU does.
Thats been my assumption because whenever I've seen Utah fans talk about it Ive never once heard Utah fans say anything about not trusting their administration or doubting they think the same way the fanbase does.
Is that really proof? No. But I do think that means something as well. When all we can do is guess O feel like its fine to draw conclusions where we can
If the Pac 12 turns into MWC part. 2, you think Utah is hanging out for that. Doubt it
“Whenever I’ve heard utah fans talk”
So Twitter, message boards, or a couple in person convos. Not a good idea to rope in an administration or a fan base based on socials and anecdotal evidence
I hate it, but I think in terms of legacy media deals we already have 100% of Utah and 0% of Colorado. Adding Utah gets B12 very little it doesn't already have.
In the long run I think real actual fans will matter more and I think Colorado has les real fan support than Utah, but for legacy media I'm pretty sure Utah doesn't add jack for Big 12.
Seems like we're in hybrid mode now where it still might pay to not overlap markets but some day it won't matter.
You and others keep saying that. Sure. We get it. That is of course correct.
Now that we got that out of the way and everyone agrees fully to this obvious truth...
There's a separate discussion of what the #2 brand in Utah adds when the Big 12 already has the #1 brand.
Now that I've broken up the feedback loop we can proceed.
Are you saying Iowa State is a coveted prize for the Big Ten? Because that's effectively what we'd be adding to the Big 12 when we already have the bigger brand in that small market state.
I've always thought Utah and ASU would only potentially be coming as part of a package deal to get AZ and Colorado, not because doubling up in those states is some cash bonanza on its own. Then of course it makes sense to point out that Utah fans act as if joining the Big 12 would be a million times worse than hell.
Dude. This isn’t 2010 and we aren’t the B1G with the B1G network. Get over it with markets. The Big12 literally can’t force a new market to add its network like the B1G did. The SEC and PAC tried following that concept and couldn’t get their network to be picked up the like B1G was able to do. The Big12 doesn’t even have its own network which makes your take even more hilarious.
I think you might have made a leap in saying that BYU is the prized brand instead of utah… I certainly don’t believe that but to be fair I have nothing to back that statement up.
This is all my perception, but BYU is more of a national brand than Utah. The only reason they aren't in the Pac 12 is because its no secret the Pac 12 has stayed away from religious institutions.
All data I've ever seen points to them having the larger fan base state wide, and much larger nation/world wide. We Big 12 fans have been in this conference doomsday thing for nearly two decades now and usually when we needed to add teams we would all look at BYU so a lot of us know quite a bit about BYU vs other programs.
Even if BYU were smaller, they'd be just slightly smaller and they are EASILY enough to cover the entire state in terms of what legacy media cares about. A legacy media TV contract isn't going to pay more because you added Utah to BYU.
It all works out because Utah fans and alums don't want the lifeboat anyway. (I say this tongue in cheek, but it is fun to observe.)
Fair points. I just never immediately thought of them as a bigger brand. To be fair Utah has only been P5 for about a decade and has made a lot of noise since they have been in the Pac. If BYU really brings a bunch of Mormon eyeballs then I agree with you but because they are rarely any good I’ve just never seen their ratings be that high. Maybe being in the Big12 will give them that boost.
Utahs TV numbers have been good. They’d be a top half in viewership in the new Big 12, if not top 2-3.
They don't get the Big 12 much in legacy media value outside of ad eyeballs, but in a future where active viewership becomes more important they will be a good brand.
However, rather than invite them, may as well see if the PAC implodes or waters down further. The more those things happen, the stronger negotiating position the Big 12 has.
Short of UW or Oregon, there's nobody left to poach right now that is going to result in a significant revenue boost for the existing teams in the league. But if Oregon and/or UW get a Big 10 invite, then even Utah is going to be willing to join with a deal friendly to the existing members.