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"MVC Style of Play"

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Clone_12

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2006
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I continue to hear people say, "this MVC style of play doesn't work in the Big 12"...then site people like Dana Altman, and his time at Kansas State, or Barry Collier (out of the Horizon League) and his time at Nebraska (not MVC, but mid-major), and so on, and so on...

Do people really think that Collier and Altman, etc...didn't win at Kansas State and Nebraska because of their "MVC style of play", or mid-major slow it down offense? I sure hope not...the fact is that they didn't win because they COULDN'T GET THE TALENT neccesary to win...

...and that is why we haven't won so far under McDermott...not because of his "MVC style of play"...the talent appears to be on the upswing here, and our results should improve as a result of it...

The question on these MVC or mid-major coaches coming into the Big 12, is whether or not they can bring in the talent...and it appears we have some pretty good recruits coming in (I know, you've heard it before, but it certainly does appear that way)...once again, our problem right now is talent, not our "MVC style of play".
 
It'll work. Just wait...........................harrison...................................colvin.......................with brackins........
 
Clone_12 said:
I continue to hear people say, "this MVC style of play doesn't work in the Big 12"...then site people like Dana Altman, and his time at Kansas State, or Barry Collier (out of the Horizon League) and his time at Nebraska (not MVC, but mid-major), and so on, and so on...

Do people really think that Collier and Altman, etc...didn't win at Kansas State and Nebraska because of their "MVC style of play", or mid-major slow it down offense? I sure hope not...the fact is that they didn't win because they COULDN'T GET THE TALENT neccesary to win...

...and that is why we haven't won so far under McDermott...not because of his "MVC style of play"...the talent appears to be on the upswing here, and our results should improve as a result of it...

The question on these MVC or mid-major coaches coming into the Big 12, is whether or not they can bring in the talent...and it appears we have some pretty good recruits coming in (I know, you've heard it before, but it certainly does appear that way)...once again, our problem right now is talent, not our "MVC style of play".
Click to expand...

Exactly...Basketball is Basketball....from preschool to NBA.
 
Clone_12 said:
I continue to hear people say, "this MVC style of play doesn't work in the Big 12"...then site people like Dana Altman, and his time at Kansas State, or Barry Collier (out of the Horizon League) and his time at Nebraska (not MVC, but mid-major), and so on, and so on...

Do people really think that Collier and Altman, etc...didn't win at Kansas State and Nebraska because of their "MVC style of play", or mid-major slow it down offense? I sure hope not...the fact is that they didn't win because they COULDN'T GET THE TALENT neccesary to win...

...and that is why we haven't won so far under McDermott...not because of his "MVC style of play"...the talent appears to be on the upswing here, and our results should improve as a result of it...

The question on these MVC or mid-major coaches coming into the Big 12, is whether or not they can bring in the talent...and it appears we have some pretty good recruits coming in (I know, you've heard it before, but it certainly does appear that way)...once again, our problem right now is talent, not our "MVC style of play".
Click to expand...

Not disagreeing with you too much, but didn't those systems work at those mid-major with the lesser talent? So, I guess I don't get this argument.
 
The main difference in the mid majors and the major programs is that the mid major schools recruit "project" players and players they hope will blossom into decent players by the time they are upperclassmen. At the major college level you have to be able to add impact players every year. One of the things that really screams "MVC Style" to some fans was last years large recruiting class, most of which were guys we were hoping to develop into good players and no real impact players.
 
Swanson10 said:
Not disagreeing with you too much, but didn't those systems work at those mid-major with the lesser talent? So, I guess I don't get this argument.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the systems worked at their mid-majors because they had better talent than the other mid-majors....when they jumped to the Big 12, they lost because they couldn't bring in the talent necessary to win, not because of their "MVC style of play".
 
As some have said, the problem isn't "MVC style" as much as "MVC players."
 
cybsball20 said:
The main difference in the mid majors and the major programs is that the mid major schools recruit "project" players and players they hope will blossom into decent players by the time they are upperclassmen. At the major college level you have to be able to add impact players every year. One of the things that really screams "MVC Style" to some fans was last years large recruiting class, most of which were guys we were hoping to develop into good players and no real impact players.
Click to expand...

This is basically agreeing with my point...talent wins out.

I'd ask those same people if they believe Colvin and Gilstrap are "projects"...
 
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Clone_12 said:
Fair enough...I'd ask those same people if they believe Colvin and Gilstrap are "projects"...
Click to expand...

Colvin no, Gilstrap is another story because he has one year. The thing is, players like Colvin should not be an every other year type thing. There are 100 top 100 players every year. We should be getting one or two EVERY YEAR.
 
cybsball20 said:
Colvin no, Gilstrap is another story because he has one year. The thing is, players like Colvin should not be an every other year type thing. There are 100 top 100 players every year. We should be getting one or two EVERY YEAR.
Click to expand...

I agree on that...my point in my initial post in this thread was that we aren't winning because we lack to talent to win right now, not because of our "MVC style of play"...

...and IF we can get enough talent in here. We will win...
 
cybsball20 said:
Yeah, we have been agreeing alot lately... The thing is, could the "slow down style" have a negative impact on the recruiting?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't know what's up with that?...I'm sure there are players out there that would rather play up-tempo ball...but I personally believe, there is enough talent out there to go around...I just hope we can get our hands on it.
 
"Yeah, we have been agreeing alot lately... The thing is, could the "slow down style" have a negative impact on the recruiting? "

I beleive this style of play has a huge impact on star recruits - the kids all want to play in the NBA, and know they will not get there by leading their .500 college team in scoring at 12 or 13 points per game.
 
cybsball20 said:
Colvin no, Gilstrap is another story because he has one year. The thing is, players like Colvin should not be an every other year type thing. There are 100 top 100 players every year. We should be getting one or two EVERY YEAR.
Click to expand...


Why on earth would you assume that? Its a great goal, but the reality is there are around 70 major conference teams. Even if the top 100 were split evenly between those teams, we'd get 1.5 each year. Once you take into account that the top teams get multiple guys, at our current state, if we start to get 1 a year, we'd be in great shape.

I think we've had the talent to compete, it just keeps leaving. Last year, if we had had Taylor and a healthy Wes, we'd have been much better. This year, with Wes we likely beat Hawaii, Drake, SDSU, Colorado and maybe even Texas and Kansas.

Where I think GMAC needs to be judged is whether or not he keeps losing these guys for bad reasons. Going to the NBA wouldn't be a bad reason. However, if we lose more guys to transfers (Brackins, Garett, Hamilton, Boozer, Eik, Steiger, Buckley), he probably gets on the hotseat.
 
CycloneTJS said:
"Yeah, we have been agreeing alot lately... The thing is, could the "slow down style" have a negative impact on the recruiting? "

I beleive this style of play has a huge impact on star recruits - the kids all want to play in the NBA, and know they will not get there by leading their .500 college team in scoring at 12 or 13 points per game.
Click to expand...

We don't play a slow style of ball. I don't know where people get this idea. Compared to Floyd or the non-Tinsley era Eustachy teams, we play at a breakneck pace.
 
I don't think there is any question that our style of offense hurts recruiting. Sullivan and Orr seem to think that it does. Who wants to go to a school that scores 48 points in a conference game?
 
clone52 said:
Why on earth would you assume that? Its a great goal, but the reality is there are around 70 major conference teams. Even if the top 100 were split evenly between those teams, we'd get 1.5 each year. Once you take into account that the top teams get multiple guys, at our current state, if we start to get 1 a year, we'd be in great shape.
Click to expand...

We should have AT LEAST one top 100 recruit every year. That shouldn't be very difficult.
 
"We don't play a slow style of ball. I don't know where people get this idea. Compared to Floyd or the non-Tinsley era Eustachy teams, we play at a breakneck pace. "

Greg's teams have averaged: 65.4, 64, 63.6 pts per game in his 3 years. Morgan's teams scored: 77.3, 68.1, 74.6 pts per game in is 3 seasons. GMAC has introduced boring (therefore less fans), slow down b-ball that studs do not want to play.
 
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cybsball20 said:
One of the things that really screams "MVC Style" to some fans was last years large recruiting class, most of which were guys we were hoping to develop into good players and no real impact players.
Click to expand...

I agree but think you need a project player and should take chances on a guy every now and then. ISU needed players that can play but also needed numbers and quality players to practice against. With a large class it is hard to get all impact players. At some point a some players that doesnt make the cut will leave or be pushed a bit to leave. Instead of holding spots open this staff went after numbers, hoping some would be turn out good and others would get the hint. Mac needs to get this classes at ISU ballanced out better somehow.
 
cybsball20 said:
Yeah, we have been agreeing alot lately... The thing is, could the "slow down style" have a negative impact on the recruiting?
Click to expand...
Isn't this obvious? If I were a recruit and I had the option of going to a place that runs an up tempo offense where I would probably average more points per game than if I played in a McDermott style offense I would definitely choose to play in the up tempo style. Most players like playing in fast paced offenses.
 
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