I also want to restate, it's not the fact that we have lost games that make me question Prohm. I also do not believe we lack talent. What's going on? This would be a good time for him to stop being vague and cryptic and explain the method to his madness. I WANT to support him.
This is why Prohm must go........
- Thread starter ohly2311
- Start date
There's talent on the ISU basketball team. That's not wrong.
It's just not very much Power 5/6 talent. Aside from bad shooting, the stark difference in general athleticism between even average basketball teams and ISU is pretty emphatic.
To make up for that they'd need to be way better fundamentally, and they're not.
The first two seasons under CSP, although a bit underwhelming, the team improved and was playing some really good ball toward the end of the year. Year 3 was a wash with injuries, youth etc. but there was at least some positives.
Last year they got to the tournament, had a surge for 3 days in K.C., but really never improved as a unit for reportedly all kinds of reasons.
This year is just a thinly talented team that's really showing the true colors of the program in that there's not really any one thing they do well.
Oh, THIS is the kind of toxicity CW was referring to this week.
I think the definition of talent is so different for many people it's tough to debate. I think people use the term talent and athleticism interchangeably and ignore the skill and fundamentals factor at the individual level.
From a size and athleticism standpoint ISU is below average among major conference teams. In terms of skill level, particularly shooting, ISU is very poor. So overall talent is poor relative to power conference teams. Now, is the talent so poor that they should be utterly non-competitive against the top teams, even on nights like last night or vs. Baylor when the opponent shoots poorly? Absolutely not. At the end of the day you still have a lottery pick on the team in the most important position in college basketball, and the team has been relatively healthy all year. No matter what else happens, if you have a lottery pick PG, winning 9-10 games and being unable to be competitive in a majority of games is not acceptable. So basically you've got a team that isn't very talented and is also playing worse than the sum of its parts.
I'm sure it's been discussed, but is it not obvious that the conventional, two big lineup is a lost cause?
- Last year Mike was solid as a 5 in a 4 guard lineup. This year playing primarily the 4 in a conventional lineup he's struggled mightily.
- Conditt and Young have been interchanged in the starting lineup. Whoever is starting and playing a bulk of minutes in the 3 guard lineup is struggling, while they have had relative success coming off the bench and playing a bulk of minutes in the 4 guard lineup.
There can be other reasons to these struggles, but it seems like all year long the team has been consistently horrible with 3 guards, and when it has looked decent it has been with Zion or Lewis as the 4.
Seeing very similar conversations with ISU fans in regards to criticizing players and Prohm
more coaching and less talent. Smaller schools with less talent still look coached.. the guys look like they were thrown together at a YMCA pick up game. I also think prohm has always played lineups of guys that he likes, not necessarily the guys that work best together. (Nixon and Jacobsons usage is just insane)
Jacobson for whatever reason Boggs down the offense of whatever lineup he is in. The solo Jacobson lineup stinks, the conditt jacobson lineup stinks.. there is a common factor.
For a hot second last night I thought he was putting Young in with Condit. We were trying to run a 3-2 defense and getting killed on offensive rebounds. Two bigs, with their combined wingspan......I would have loved to see what it looked like
Probably nothing but good things.
Hello Mr. glass half empty........I'm glass half full. You see two "resets" I see one...last year. Because last seasons "overall success" to me resets the board. You cannot blame him for the bad but not the good. The 17-18 season does not erase last year, it's the other way around. Unless of course you just want to get rid of him. But then there is this.........
You went from "at least troubling" to "not acceptable" in just a few days. Why is that? And I think a more relevant question to your relevant question is why the heck did you even ask that? Have we started a "missing" steak yet? If this season continues on it's current pace then our streak of not making the tourney will be ..............................one in a row. Is that "not acceptable" to you, or just "at least troubling"? Because there is a huge difference.
CW just had a podcast about how bad it looks when fans personally insult others, like calling them 'dense'.
That is a fact.
So Roy Williams is on par with with Steve Prohm. Got it. Thanks for the clarification.
Another game, another double digit loss. It's the new norm around here.
As I've said before, it's not just the losing, it's looking like we don't belong on the same floor as the other team. We can't even be competitive.
As I've said before, it's not just the losing, it's looking like we don't belong on the same floor as the other team. We can't even be competitive.
I just don't agree with this. I'm sure people are out there that are out-and-out rude and insensitive towards players and that's not good. But it's really hard to have a discussion about a game or a team without referencing their play. So while I have no doubt some people go past the line, I'm not sure there's a nicer way to say "Nixon can't shoot" or "Terrence can't guard".
I mean, a guy like Izzo wants and needs the fan support to justify his enormous contract. But he doesn't want them to talk about the game or their play? Criticism comes with the territory. I agree there's a line that some people cross and that's terrible, but it's also part of having a good fan base that you're going to have to deal with some criticism.
This team sucks. No doubt about it. My biggest problem is what is next years team going to look like. We lose Nixon (Fine with that), Tyrese (huge blow) and a few others. We won't compete next year either for the most part. Have a bunch of freshman coming in next year and while they may be good long term. They are not really immediate impact guys. So we are going to go through the same stuff next season. I'm just down on this whole basketball thing right now.
I've seen so many in this thread using last year to defend Prohm and I can't understand it. We had 3 NBA players and 3 more nearly as talented, yet we melted down the stretch. Outside of the 3 game run in KC, we lost 6 of our last 7 games. It was highlighted by players shoving their teammates on the court. Players could not wait to declare their intentions to leave after the season. It was clear he lost that team and to me last season was an unmitigated disaster.
Now add on that we lost 10 of the last 11 the prior year and this year seems to be heading in the same direction...
Exactly, last year was not a success. I give him credit for putting a team together with that much talent, but the on court results were a huge disappointment.