To all the Prohm Haters...

[EarthIsMan]

Sigma, do you know if one of the analytic sites does a stat on minutes continuity, experience or something along those lines? I agree we have a nice blend but just curious where we're at in that type of metric/how we compare to other teams across the country. Thx in advance if you're able to dig that up

KenPom has a metric for experience and minutes continuity. Experience we are 249th with a player experience mean of 1.45 years. ISU is also 310th in minutes continuity with 27.4% of the same minutes being played by the same players between this season and last season.

In the context of all NCAA teams, ISU does not have a lot of experience or continuity. Minutes continuity and offensive efficiency are significantly correlated. That means the offense is only going to get better, right?

 

[fsanford]

Good post...I think we are harder on our own. I know I am guilty of it.
I think Wayne got a win in Lawrence after LE....Stinson game winner.

Your right, was that after they started like 0-5 on the season in conference?

 

[Sigmapolis]

Sigma, do you know if one of the analytic sites does a stat on minutes continuity, experience or something along those lines? I agree we have a nice blend but just curious where we're at in that type of metric/how we compare to other teams across the country. Thx in advance if you're able to dig that up

http://www.barttorvik.com/trankpre.php

The columns on the right.

Returning minutes (adjusted for injuries)

Returning possession minutes

Ironically, however, only ~40% of our minutes are being played by returners. The Barttovik numbers are based on a preseason projection of likely starters and rotational players, which only has so much bearing on what teams have actually done with their rotations this season. Only Nick and Lindell remain from the rotation last season, and Lindell only recently. That is what happens when you start two sit-out transfers, two true freshmen, your two starting posts from last season are injured, and everybody else from that (admittedly bad) team is gone now.

We turned over 5/7 spots in our rotation and 3/5 starters since last year.

And that was after turning over 4/5 starters and 5/7 rotation spots the season before, too.

Considering the cliff the roster went off, the fact we have a pretty good team, talent incoming, good recruiting, and a balance scholarship chart is an accomplishment.

 

[Cloneon]

The overreactions each way get old. Even with the big win tonight we again saw the issues late in the game. I’m not going to be overly critical tonight but we still saw the shutdown of the offense late in the game.

There's only one very big difference. One can't possibly 'help' the program while the other one can't possibly 'hurt' the program.

 

[MartyFine]

And you know who you are...

Coach Fred Hoiberg, for as much of a legend as he deservedly is, will NEVER coach at Iowa State again, and the sooner you dumba$$es can get that through your thick skulls the better.

Steve Prohm is our coach. He may not have played basketball at Iowa State or be the hometown hero, but he is our coach. And he is a very good coach. Is he perfect or beyond reproach or above criticism? Of course not.

But he is our coach, and if you cannot support him or the program as long as he coaches, and if you hate him so much that you never post on here after big victories like tonight or against Kansas but take the time to scream for his head after a loss like against KSU, guess what? You are NOT a Cyclone fan and whatever ISU apparel you might own needs to be donated to kids in Africa. Time to be a fan of Iowa State, not a fan of one man.

Rant over. Had to get it off my chest.

I don’t know how anyone can observe ISU’s inability to run an inbounds play out of a dead ball or timeout and think, “Wow, this team is well coached.”

 

[nfrine]

I don’t know how anyone can observe ISU’s inability to run an inbounds play out of a dead ball or timeout and think, “Wow, this team is well coached.”

Easy there Marty....things will be Fine.

 

[cb1030]

Everyone's wife be a Hoiberg truther. Mine is just pissed her "my coach is better looking than your coach" shirt is no longer relevant. Surprised people haven't been critical of Steve for that shortcoming.

 

[Cyclonepride]

My wife is one in the Fred 2.0 camp and has been since the day he left to "try the NBA coaching thing". Him getting fired by the Bulls only intensified that desire. I have to walk her back on that often. Those people exist for sure.

Prohm was the answer of who we needed we Fred left. Any disruption at the top between then and now would have been catastrophic with the imbalance in our roster and the likely talent transfer out that happens when head coaches leave. The roster is stable now, ISU is performing well, and Prohm deserves credit for both.

I consistently value the way his guys minimize turnovers and the way he coaches the whole athlete. If the question is, "Who will consistently put ISU in position to win 22 games per year, make the tourney 80% of the time, and do it the right way?" The answer is Prohm for years.

If the question is, "Who is leading Iowa State to a Final Four?" The answer is not Prohm. My consistent (not knee-jerk reactions) criticisms are clock management, timeout usage, and execution coming out of dead balls. Those things swing tight games. What's Prohm's record at ISU in games decided by 5 or fewer points against teams who ended up in the tourney or top40 RPI?

To your last, he gives us a better chance at that than Fred (with all due respect to how good of coach he is). The reason? Defense. Fred's teams were powerhouses on the offensive end, but you need more balance to advance deep into the tournament because sometimes you will simply shoot poorly.

 

[Cyclonepride]

I don’t know how anyone can observe ISU’s inability to run an inbounds play out of a dead ball or timeout and think, “Wow, this team is well coached.”

I don't know how anyone could look at the totality of the results and think it isn't.

 

[KnappShack]

Why do we continue to do this to ourselves after every game?

Win - Prohm is great
Lose - Prohm sucks

Gets tiring

Throw in the ref blaming too.

JFC that's old.

 

[SECyclone]

Fred brought Iowa State back and we should all be thankful. His wandering eyes at the NBA took us a few steps back with players unwilling to commit. Glad all this was a build up to Prohm.

 

[cyups2323]

I absolutely love coach prohm as a person and as our coach. If you gave me a choice right now between prohm or Hoiberg i would take prohm. That being said, is it ok to suggest we work on inbounds plays and end of game offense or does that take away my iowa state fan card?

 

[snowcraig2.0]

His in game strategy is great .

But for the love of Christ he needs to start Wiggington.

 

[Urbandale2013]

I consistently value the way his guys minimize turnovers and the way he coaches the whole athlete. If the question is, "Who will consistently put ISU in position to win 22 games per year, make the tourney 80% of the time, and do it the right way?" The answer is Prohm for years.

If the question is, "Who is leading Iowa State to a Final Four?" The answer is not Prohm. My consistent (not knee-jerk reactions) criticisms are clock management, timeout usage, and execution coming out of dead balls. Those things swing tight games. What's Prohm's record at ISU in games decided by 5 or fewer points against teams who ended up in the tourney or top40 RPI?

I think this is part of the divide. I think the group that thinks Prohm is an awful clueless coach is very small (maybe one poster). The bigger pronounced divide is in those that think he is a decent coach that would be good at a slightly lower level. In the Big 12 we need a great coach. The talent level of coaches has been diluted a bit the last year or so but there was a time where we had 9 great coaches if I have my timeline correct.

We absolutely should make the tournament 80%+ of the time. We should however also have those great years. I don’t have any sort of confidence that Prohm gets us to those. Look at the 2 Sweet Sixteens for comparisons sake of what our potential should be. In Fred’s run we got to a Sweet Sixteen with a major injury and almost beat the eventual champions. With Prohms run we got two double digit seeds and lost relatively handedly to a team that lost in the Elite Eight.

IMO we should be striving for the next step with Prohm. We shouldn’t be accepting more of the same. I’m by no means advocating for Fred. I think his hatred of recruiting is a big block for him. I just think people need to Raise the Standard to the one that Fred set when he was here.

 

[knowlesjam]

I think this is part of the divide. I think the group that thinks Prohm is an awful clueless coach is very small (maybe one poster). The bigger pronounced divide is in those that think he is a decent coach that would be good at a slightly lower level. In the Big 12 we need a great coach. The talent level of coaches has been diluted a bit the last year or so but there was a time where we had 9 great coaches if I have my timeline correct.

We absolutely should make the tournament 80%+ of the time. We should however also have those great years. I don’t have any sort of confidence that Prohm gets us to those. Look at the 2 Sweet Sixteens for comparisons sake of what our potential should be. In Fred’s run we got to a Sweet Sixteen with a major injury and almost beat the eventual champions. With Prohms run we got two double digit seeds and lost relatively handedly to a team that lost in the Elite Eight.

IMO we should be striving for the next step with Prohm. We shouldn’t be accepting more of the same. I’m by no means advocating for Fred. I think his hatred of recruiting is a big block for him. I just think people need to Raise the Standard to the one that Fred set when he was here.

So who do you propose as a replacement to Prohm to "Raise the Standard" back to the good ole Hoiberg ways? ISU made a coaching decision to bring in a coach that favors guard play and defense. I for one enjoyed the hell out of the game last night...warts and all. We scored 16 points above the average that TTech allows...and it was a joy to watch much of the defensive sets that we applied. And this is with a team that is still trying to find its identity after injuries and suspensions unbalanced it. Enjoy the show...

 

[Cyched]

I don't know how anyone could look at the totality of the results and think it isn't.

Love both coaches, and think this argument is silly. But did people nitpick Fred's coaching the way they do now?

 

[Cyclonepride]

I think this is part of the divide. I think the group that thinks Prohm is an awful clueless coach is very small (maybe one poster). The bigger pronounced divide is in those that think he is a decent coach that would be good at a slightly lower level. In the Big 12 we need a great coach. The talent level of coaches has been diluted a bit the last year or so but there was a time where we had 9 great coaches if I have my timeline correct.

We absolutely should make the tournament 80%+ of the time. We should however also have those great years. I don’t have any sort of confidence that Prohm gets us to those. Look at the 2 Sweet Sixteens for comparisons sake of what our potential should be. In Fred’s run we got to a Sweet Sixteen with a major injury and almost beat the eventual champions. With Prohms run we got two double digit seeds and lost relatively handedly to a team that lost in the Elite Eight.

IMO we should be striving for the next step with Prohm. We shouldn’t be accepting more of the same. I’m by no means advocating for Fred. I think his hatred of recruiting is a big block for him. I just think people need to Raise the Standard to the one that Fred set when he was here.

Not sure how you could look at the young talent on this team and think that the next step isn't already in progress.

 

[Cyclonepride]

Love both coaches, and think this argument is silly. But did people nitpick Fred's coaching the way they do now?

He got criticism, some of it washed out by the hometown hero aura that Fred has (deservedly so, he earned that). With Prohm, the critique goes beyond the apparent results.

 

[Cat Stevens]

I think this is part of the divide. I think the group that thinks Prohm is an awful clueless coach is very small (maybe one poster). The bigger pronounced divide is in those that think he is a decent coach that would be good at a slightly lower level. In the Big 12 we need a great coach. The talent level of coaches has been diluted a bit the last year or so but there was a time where we had 9 great coaches if I have my timeline correct.

We absolutely should make the tournament 80%+ of the time. We should however also have those great years. I don’t have any sort of confidence that Prohm gets us to those. Look at the 2 Sweet Sixteens for comparisons sake of what our potential should be. In Fred’s run we got to a Sweet Sixteen with a major injury and almost beat the eventual champions. With Prohms run we got two double digit seeds and lost relatively handedly to a team that lost in the Elite Eight.

IMO we should be striving for the next step with Prohm. We shouldn’t be accepting more of the same. I’m by no means advocating for Fred. I think his hatred of recruiting is a big block for him. I just think people need to Raise the Standard to the one that Fred set when he was here.

Yeah this definitely isn’t just an anti prohm rant at all.

What did he do to you?

 

[IASTATE07]

I think this is part of the divide. I think the group that thinks Prohm is an awful clueless coach is very small (maybe one poster).

I do not get this feeling at all. While I agree the group is small, it's at least a dozen posters that think this way. Many weren't seen after the game last night.