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Right to Repair - Pros/Cons

The right to repair hardware seems simple enough, do it at your own risk. Software is where this gets tricky. Do you purchase the actual code, or the license of the code?
 
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cyclones500 said:
I admit I was unaware of right-to-repair concept. So the link is educational/, at least. It'd require additional detail and examination to motivate a viewpoint.

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Yeah, this is the first I've heard of it. It's an interesting read. This part made laugh:

Gordon-Byrne laughed off my concern. “I can’t imagine someone going in to try and sue Apple for a finger cut, when it’s already clear that the phone has glass and that glass is fragile.”

I think she's drastically underestimating the levels of stupidity in this world.
 
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Clonehomer said:
The right to repair hardware seems simple enough, do it at your own risk. Software is where this gets tricky. Do you purchase the actual code, or the license of the code?
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Yeah, that is my thought. Parts should be available, but the company isn't responsible for whatever you may **** up in the process, and it voids the warranty.
 
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Cyclonepride said:
Yeah, that is my thought. Parts should be available, but the company isn't responsible for whatever you may **** up in the process, and it voids the warranty.
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That sounds about right. Can you try to fix your own iPhone? Yeah, sure. Should you try? That's an entirely different matter.
 
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I think it's shameful how disposable society has become today. And I'm for from a environmentalist.

I remember fixing TV's when I was young. Now I just go buy a new one for $200 at Target.

I also don't know if the government needs to be involved.
 
NickTheGreat said:
I think it's shameful how disposable society has become today. And I'm for from a environmentalist.

I remember fixing TV's when I was young. Now I just go buy a new one for $200 at Target.

I also don't know if the government needs to be involved.
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If electronics companies had their way, they wouldn't have to make parts available at all. I think they have tried to get that done over the years through appeals to the government. In the end, they've become so cheap that it hardly makes sense to fix them due to the labor involved (and they do jack the price of parts way up to provide emphasis to your decision).
 
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Cyclonepride said:
If electronics companies had their way, they wouldn't have to make parts available at all. I think they have tried to get that done over the years through appeals to the government. In the end, they've become so cheap that it hardly makes sense to fix them due to the labor involved (and they do jack the price of parts way up to provide emphasis to your decision).
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That's true. We've had to have our oven repaired twice in the time we've owned it, and the next time it conks out we'll just replace it due to the absurdly high cost of labor and parts. Unless you're handy and able to source the replacement parts on your own, you're better off just buying new.
 
Clonehomer said:
The right to repair hardware seems simple enough, do it at your own risk. Software is where this gets tricky. Do you purchase the actual code, or the license of the code?
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Particularly when the software is essential for the hardware to work, particularly thinking of ECUs and other controllers.
 
I was at a recent vendor conference for AutoZone, who are huge advocates for this because they're seeing a massive push for the opposite among all of the auto manufacturers. If the Automobile manufacturers get there way you will no longer own the data in your engine, they will. So auto repair will be available to ONLY the dealerships. Other industries are intently watching this automotive scenario play out, for obvious reasons.
 
I don't think anybody should be required to provide manuals and official parts. Just my opinion.

People decry how much as a society we just toss stuff out, and yeah in a way it's bad. However, who wants their TV to last 25 years? TV technology changes a lot. I wish I had one of the TV's that had Roku built in. A 25 year old TV now would be a 27' SD tube TV. You'd have to pay somebody just to take the thing.

I've owned 2 dryers. I buy cheap ones because it's a dryer. I had somebody come out to fix the first one once and the bill was 300.00. Why not just buy another one for 400.00? I seriously honestly don't see why people are surprised why we are a disposable society.
 
BryceC said:
I don't think anybody should be required to provide manuals and official parts. Just my opinion.
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How far does that extend? Should you be able to get your oil and filter on your car changed at your choice of shop, or should you be required to go to the manufacturer (or choose to throw out the car and get a new one)? Should you be able and allowed to replace a dead battery in your tv remote? Should you be able to plug in a different keyboard or monitor to your computer? There are companies that will take advantage of this kind of thing.
 
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JayV said:
How far does that extend? Should you be able to get your oil and filter on your car changed at your choice of shop, or should you be required to go to the manufacturer (or choose to throw out the car and get a new one)? Should you be able and allowed to replace a dead battery in your tv remote? Should you be able to plug in a different keyboard or monitor to your computer? There are companies that will take advantage of this kind of thing.
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This is a tough one. I mean it seems pretty obvious that you should be able to replace your battery but what about in a water proof smart phone?
 
1100011CS said:
This is a tough one. I mean it seems pretty obvious that you should be able to replace your battery but what about in a water proof smart phone?
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You should be able to replace any battery. Just don't complain if you break something when opening that waterproof smart phone up.

The throwaway society isn't about manufacturers actively trying to stop you from repairing appliances and such. It's that the manufacturing process has become so streamlined in many of these products that the cost of materials and assembly labor is less than the labor to take something apart and repair it.

When you talk about right to repair, especially in automotive, the components are often calibrated and controlled by software. To repair or replace those requires accessing that software. If manufacturers were to open that up to let anyone access that software, it'll be hacked within minutes to let owners modify other aspects beyond just repair. Just look at what happens to when new phones come out. There's an immediate quest to jailbreak or root those to do whatever you want with them. If that were to happen with cars, you'd have people modifying emissions sensors, safety protocols, or engine limiters that are there for a reason. In those cases, I don't think the consumer has the right to do that on thier own.
 
FYI - literally just got a meeting invite to a discussion on this at my company.
 
TXCyclones said:
I was at a recent vendor conference for AutoZone, who are huge advocates for this because they're seeing a massive push for the opposite among all of the auto manufacturers. If the Automobile manufacturers get there way you will no longer own the data in your engine, they will. So auto repair will be available to ONLY the dealerships. Other industries are intently watching this automotive scenario play out, for obvious reasons.
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There's similar things starting to happen in the Ag world. Like with your John Deere tractor. I've read about it before, but don't remember all the intricacies of it.
 
As I alluded to in the cabover semi thread, I work with engine controls and reliability. We don't want customers to mess with things like fuel maps or emissions calibrations because they don't know what they're doing. On diesel trucks, screwing up a parameter related to a DPF regen can result in a truck burning down. Then the manufacturer is on the hook to prove that it was caused by the owner messing with the code while the aftertreatment control module is a pile of ash. Its WAY less liability to make that code inaccessible. That doesn't mean you have to go to one of our dealerships to read the fault codes - that stuff is available on the public CAN network and can be read by generic scan tools - but if you really need new software (which is rare) then you do have to go to the dealership to get it installed.
 
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