"Flexible time off"

[isufbcurt]

Yes, with principles new policy any banked PTO goes away now.

I am not sure how that can be.

It is my understanding that if you have a PTO policy and people earned the PTO they have accrued you are legally obligated to let them use it or pay them for it.

For example: If I am an employee and the policy states I earn 10 hours per month, can have a maximum of 120 hours accrued and I so happen to have 120 hours accrued, they can't just change the policy and I lose all my accrued hours. They have to pay me for those hours or allow me to use them.

 

[clone4lyfe]

Yes, with principles new policy any banked PTO goes away now.

This isn't true! I'm an employee at Principal. They are slowly moving over to the FTO format. People in the top pay grades stopped accruing PTO immediately and have until the end of next year to use up their bank. The few pay grades below that stop accruing PTO some time next year and have until some time in 2018 to use up their bank. The rest of us will continue accruing it until the end of next year and then have to use it up by the end of 2018. On the current PTO program you accrue so many hours every pay period based on how long you've worked here. Overall this system only seems to impact those building a huge bank with the idea that they will either use it at retirement or use it when they quit. I've never needed approval to take PTO the whole time I've worked here. I just tell my leader I won't be in or that I'm leaving early. There are a few areas that my be more stringent but I think overall most people won't see much of an impact from this change.

 

[capitalcityguy]

I am not sure how that can be.

It is my understanding that if you have a PTO policy and people earned the PTO they have accrued you are legally obligated to let them use it or pay them for it.

For example: If I am an employee and the policy states I earn 10 hours per month, can have a maximum of 120 hours accrued and I so happen to have 120 hours accrued, they can't just change the policy and I lose all my accrued hours. They have to pay me for those hours or allow me to use them.

Actually this is a state law issue. A handful of state's require you to pay out any earned PTO not used, but a majority of states do not.

 

[Gunnerclone]

I am not sure how that can be.

It is my understanding that if you have a PTO policy and people earned the PTO they have accrued you are legally obligated to let them use it or pay them for it.

For example: If I am an employee and the policy states I earn 10 hours per month, can have a maximum of 120 hours accrued and I so happen to have 120 hours accrued, they can't just change the policy and I lose all my accrued hours. They have to pay me for those hours or allow me to use them.

This is only true in like 8 states I believe.

edit: See above post.

 

[SCNCY]

I am not sure how that can be.

It is my understanding that if you have a PTO policy and people earned the PTO they have accrued you are legally obligated to let them use it or pay them for it.

For example: If I am an employee and the policy states I earn 10 hours per month, can have a maximum of 120 hours accrued and I so happen to have 120 hours accrued, they can't just change the policy and I lose all my accrued hours. They have to pay me for those hours or allow me to use them.

I think this varies by state. When I worked in Iowa and quit a job, I was given all of my PTO time. I think in Iowa, any PTO you have in your 'bank' needs to be paid out. This would need to be confirmed, but I remember getting all of my PTO paid in cash.

In Missouri, where I work now, I don't think there is a requirement to pay out PTO time, although my company has a policy to pay out up to 40 hours of PTO if you quit.

 

[KnappShack]

This isn't true! I'm an employee at Principal. They are slowly moving over to the FTO format. People in the top pay grades stopped accruing PTO immediately and have until the end of next year to use up their bank. The few pay grades below that stop accruing PTO some time next year and have until some time in 2018 to use up their bank. The rest of us will continue accruing it until the end of next year and then have to use it up by the end of 2018. On the current PTO program you accrue so many hours every pay period based on how long you've worked here. Overall this system only seems to impact those building a huge bank with the idea that they will either use it at retirement or use it when they quit. I've never needed approval to take PTO the whole time I've worked here. I just tell my leader I won't be in or that I'm leaving early. There are a few areas that my be more stringent but I think overall most people won't see much of an impact from this change.

Wow. In absolutely no way do I see this as being positive for the employees. It's nothing more than a smoke and mirror accounting move to limit the unpaid liabilities on the books.

If this is the direction corporate America is going it's a kick in the pants to the workers. It's a pay cut.

Even as a morale breaker it's bad. Joe 40 hours is going to completely burn up FTO while the driven employees pick up the slack and don't even get to bank the time earned.

 

[mdk2isu]

Even as a morale breaker it's bad. Joe 40 hours is going to completely burn up FTO while the driven employees pick up the slack and don't even get to bank the time earned.

And Joe 40 hours wont get as good of raises and will get passed over for promotions or even let go due to low production while the driven employees are more than compensated in the form of raises and promotions.

 

[2ndCyCE]

And Joe 40 hours wont get as good of raises and will get passed over for promotions or even let go due to low production while the driven employees are more than compensated in the form of raises and promotions.

The managers and executives will see the bulk of the bonuses as a result of this FTO policy (corporate cost cutting). I'm willing to bet that average workers see little to no change in their compensation and bonuses, assuming they work similar hours for similar results, (productivity) before and after the FTO/PTO change.

So it is, in essence, a pay cut for the average worker, since they will no longer be allowed to "bank" PTO hours and have a payout available.

 

[KnappShack]

And Joe 40 hours wont get as good of raises and will get passed over for promotions or even let go due to low production while the driven employees are more than compensated in the form of raises and promotions.

So the driven employee now needs to earn a promotion and hope for a better raise in order to make up for the compensation package they had under a PTO system?

4 weeks of PTO for a guy making $100,000 is worth roughly $7,700. So Joe 40 gets a 3% raise. Driven guy gets 5% and that's going to even the field?

Plus promotion opportunities don't always happen frequently.

This FTO plan is not in the employees best interest.

 

[capitalcityguy]

And Joe 40 hours wont get as good of raises and will get passed over for promotions or even let go due to low production while the driven employees are more than compensated in the form of raises and promotions.

agreed. When the economy turns bad and/or the stock market tanks, you don't want to be Joe 40 working in the financial services industry. Joe becomes very expendable.

This stuff generally all works out....maybe not right away....but long term it tends to.

 

[Gunnerclone]

And Joe 40 hours wont get as good of raises and will get passed over for promotions or even let go due to low production while the driven employees are more than compensated in the form of raises and promotions.

And you claim to work in corporate?

 

[Dopey]

For me personally, going to that type of system would be horrible. I have dozens of projects which I am responsible for, lined up from now until 2020 and beyond. Even if one project may reach a lull where I don't have any immediate tasks I can do without work being done by others, there are always other things that need doing. It seems like if there is an employee who has the capability of regularly completing work and having days where they have nothing to do, they need to take on more work or their department is overstaffed.

If my work ever went to that type of system, I'd probably get to take 2-3 days off per year. I can't think of a time when there has not been a task I could be doing. I definitely prefer them to define the amount of time that they are OK with us taking off, because work will always be there.

Thank you. I was starting to think I was the only schmuck who had more than one project to work on during any given day.

 

[harimad]

This may sound harsh, but all of us are dispensable. Apple didn't shut down when Jobs died. Berkshire-Hathaway will be fine when Buffet dies. I would think those two guys are indispensable, but they're not.

I would agree with that, except... Bill Snyder. *cough*

 

[NickTheGreat]

agreed. When the economy turns bad and/or the stock market tanks, you don't want to be Joe 40 working in the financial services industry. Joe becomes very expendable.

This stuff generally all works out....maybe not right away....but long term it tends to.

You seem a lot younger and more naive than I've always pictured you.

 

[agrabes]

agreed. When the economy turns bad and/or the stock market tanks, you don't want to be Joe 40 working in the financial services industry. Joe becomes very expendable.

This stuff generally all works out....maybe not right away....but long term it tends to.

My experience is probably not typical working in the utility industry, but I can tell you that it really would not work out at my office.

Here's the issue at my work: managers come to have low expectations from chronic underperformers. They accept poor performance from them, giving them average raises, etc. These same poor performers would probably take a lot of these "unlimited" paid days off, and since expectations of them are already low they will not be penalized. In my line of work, you only get fired if you are doing something against the law or you just don't come in to work at all, so becoming expendable is not a concern for poor performers.

High performers get above average raises and better promotion opportunities, but above average raises vs. average raises is probably a difference of 1-2% or so. High performers may have a better shot at getting a promotion, but promotion opportunities are limited so the top 10% performers may get those opportunities but the rest of the high performers are stuck high and dry. Promotions do come with increased pay and benefits, but also proportionate increased responsibilities.

The net result is that poor performers will essentially become validated in their poor performance. The expectations for them are low, so they will no longer be doing anything wrong by just leaving work. All they have to do is say their are getting their work done. No change there from what they have been doing before, except that it is now above board. High performers will continue to work hard, but as studies have shown they will now likely take less time off than before. Their base pay differential will be about the same as under the old system, but the gap will close because of the extra time off that poor performers will get.

 

[alars]

As others have stated, it really depends on the company, culture and industry.

In my company (40,000+ employees), we get 2-4 weeks of PTO, 2 weeks sick and 3 personal days (depends on level for PTO time). We are expected to be available/online from 10am-4pm CT throughout the year and we can adjust are schedule to get our work done around those hours. We also have summer half days every Friday in the summer. I manage some associates in India, so for me, I start earlier and am usually done by 4:30 every day, but my manager usually starts at 10 and ends later. If we have a doctor's appointment, they don't expect you to take time from sick/PTO leave for it.

As long as we get our work down when necessary, we can leave a little early at night or take some PTO. Our company is very adamant that it's PTO we've earned, so use it. Work/life balance is also really important so we can work from home whenever we want to too.

Every company just has to find the right balance for their employees and enforce it properly. Which is much easier said then done.

 

[clonebb]

Do you work in a place that is responding to the new overtime law?

https://www.fastcompany.com/3060032/heres-how-the-new-overtime-law-will-affect-you



By offering FTO, it could be that they are making sure employees aren't working more than 40 hours so as not to draw overtime.

Nope, Flexible time off is only for salaried employees. Basically instead of tracking and having a bank, you take time off as needed. Of course, you still have to get the work done and meet performance goals.

Companies that have PTO are required to hold cash reserves to pay out the balance when people leave or retire. That reserve and payment goes away with FTO.

 

[dmclone]

As someone who is not real happy about this new flexible time off policy I'd like to point out a few positives about Principal.

In the last 5 years a large portion of our staff has been allowed to start working from home. I do it 2 days a week but they wouldn't say a word if I moved to 3 or 4 days a week.

They are very flexible on the hours. I go in at 6am but just in my department we have people that start work anytime between 6 and 10am. I could change this to 8am tomorrow if I wanted and I knew it wouldn't affect the products I support.

I can take off in the middle of the day if I have everything covered. I can take a 3 hour lunch if I wanted. On the other hand, I don't mind working a few hours on the weekends if I need to get something done and that's the same for my co-workers.

I work at a beautiful campus where I can sit and work wherever I want. If I want to go work for 8 hours in the international cafe I can do that. I'm just feet from our very own Starbucks.

Little perks like the ability to wear jeans year round, parking so easy that I take 20 steps to the skywalk, they let me connect my phone to the corporate wi-fi and I can stream what I want, short term disability, employee stock purchase plan, 401k matching, more woman in management than men, etc.

In the IT world at least they are very open to change. You come up with a good idea, they will research and possibly implement. I came up with an idea a few months ago that I didn't think anyone would like and just last week they told me that it would be part of an upcoming code bash.

I haven't always agreed with their decisions. I was part of Principal Mortgage when they let that go even though it was their biggest money maker at the time. Looking back it was perfect timing. Same thing with letting the Health division fold before Obamacare. Every experience I've had has shown me that senior management doesn't always make perfect decisions but they have always been ethical.

I use to work retail during high school, college, and post college so I probably appreciate working for them more than your average joe.

My experience will be different than ee's in other departments. The truth is that some departments suck to work in but that's the case with any large company. I will tell you that I see a ton of employees leave the company and then come back and never leave.



From my experience at the company, a large portion of the employees are very fiscal conservative. You don't see a lot of luxury cars in the ramp, you don't hear about people living above their means, etc. This is probably why a lot of people like myself had huge banks of PTO. I believe my max is around 320 hours that I could carry and I never went below 250. I did this just in case I had some kind of big emergency come up.

 

[clonebb]

The PTO already accrued doesn't just disappear into thin air, right?

At Principal you have until 2018 or 2019 to use it, depending on level according to an earlier post.

 

[capitalcityguy]

You seem a lot younger and more naive than I've always pictured you.

I’ve worked for a Fortune 500 company for 20+ yrs. I wouldn’t have made my last few comments if I didn’t have experience with this. Granted, it is with the same company so I can only share my experiences from that vantage point but if you rub enough elbows with peers in various social and business circles, and you find out there are a lot of similarities between large companies.


Bottom-line: over time and despite inconsistency along the road (because you are dealing with imperfect people/leaders, the cream always finds a way to rise to the top. The other 80%....well…they are ready with a laundry list of excuses as to why they are where they are