*** COACHING SEARCH THREAD: Sunday, June 7 ***

[Jeremy]

Thanks for your patience Jeremy. Could #7 mean ISU has offered one of the two surprises and so the other is pulling out to save face (which I think typically happens?)

The way I would look at the two unnamed is this... No offer has been made to them, but both parties informally know what the magic range would need to be to make conversations worth-while, and neither side has walked away (except for possibly 1 of the 2 candidates late today).

 

[swarthmoreCY]

Completely disagree and I think your point is totally wrong. First of all Shaka made $1.5 million last year.

2nd, if Texas is only paying Smart $3 million (a raise of $1.5 million) with the most profitable AD in the country, there is no way we pay a mid level coach $3 million plus.

If we do, it will be a big name. We are not paying Johnny Jones, Mark Fox, Fran McCaffrey, Andy Kennedy type guys between $3 and $4 million.

Think about the Smart example. Like other guys not on that list because they make only 1.5 to 2 million, Smart is was a big name and not a mid-level coach, but to get them we would need to pay 3 to 4. People went after Archie Miller with that type of money until Dayton increased his pay.

As I said earlier, JP is cheap, so this is likely where that original mention of Leath being involved in some capacity came in. I don't think JP is too worried about there being any personal consequence to his cheaper candidates failing. Easier to balance the books in the meantime, and if they fail he will just hire another guy or already have gotten out.

We will not get a guy at Michigan to move for what you think is market value. Overall market value is rather meaningless, if not non-existent in situations this small. That is why you see guys like Smart stay at VCU for less money until he went to UT. ISU could offer him more than UT and he was not going to jump to from VCU to ISU.

 

[DesertClone1]

Scott Brooks anyone?

 

[Jeremy]

Also about Underwood - I bet if there's any non-mystery candidate up for it against TJ, I bet it's him. His win percentage is ridiculous especially for a 1st time HC at almost .900. I can only think of one other legendary coach who put up those kind of numbers before going to a big time school and that was Jerry Tarkanian when he was at Long Beach State. Most of the other legendary coaches had win pcts of between .640 and .730 before jumping ship to more power schools.

SFA also lost to Utah by 7 in the NCAA tournament. The same Utah team who lost to eventual national champs Duke by 6 in the Sweet 16 (the same Duke team that beat Michigan State by 20 in the Final Four). The game against Utah was a 2 point game with under 1 minute left.

Underwood seems to have the most support behind TJ when it comes to people in the know. I've heard the most about TJ, followed by Underwood, then Prohm, and a distant fourth is Drew. Nobody talks about Moton (likely an interview just to appease certain parties).

Good info; thanks for sharing, and hope you can understand why some Cyclone fans are on edge arguing here because we don't have any of the info that you do. Not saying that is a bad thing but just saying it makes for an uneasy situation as we wait and see how it all shakes out.

Thank you.

 

[kingcy]

Just to clarify - I said we "could" afford that amount (I posted more about it a week or so ago) but that doesn't mean we would or will go that high. JP is cheap, very cheap, and his target is in the 1.25-1.75 range. Again, as I talked about at length a week ago, Leath's whole purpose in being involved is to make sure money isn't the only factor as the theoretical ceiling is much higher than JP likes to admit.

Why does JP want to go so cheap?

 

[Die4Cy]

Part that bothers with this whole JP thing is, if he knows what we really have for a team, why is he trying to be so cheap? I understand that he wants to save the university money but being cheap isn't the best.

It isn't being cheap, it's trying to have broad success across the whole athletics department. We as fans only care about football and men's basketball, but good AD's want to get the most out of all their programs. I cut Pollard slack because he has elevated ISU athletics as a whole, and has done it without a lot of football success. A lot of schools got big television money in the past 6-8 years and even with that, ISU has managed to pull itself forward.

 

[clonedude]

Hopefully this is easier to read, most of it is what I posted a week and a half ago...

1- We CAN afford up to $5 million if we really wanted to.
2- JP has his preferred budget of 1.25-1.75.
3- Leath stepped in to make sure JP's preferred budget didn't become a stumbling block.
4- The "known" candidates would all fit within JP's comfort zone.
5- The unknown candidates would be much higher than JP's comfort zone.
6- Goal is still to decide by mid-week.
7- One of the two surprise candidates may be pulling out (still trying to confirm with an additional source).
8- I'm told one of the candidates that interviewed has since been informed he is no longer a candidate, also trying to confirm.

I really appreciate this summation of what you know. I think it helps clarify the situation where it's at right now for most of us.

 

[Jeremy]

Why does JP want to go so cheap?

I always get told that he's a CPA and budget is his first and primary priority. It has been to our benefit over the years, but the comment I made a couple days ago about a lot of donors and interested parties feeling like he wants to continue running at the level that he first came in at, like we're the little school on the prairie, rings true.

 

[swarthmoreCY]

All I know is that whomever becomes coach, there is going to be disappointment within the fan base for Iowa State after taking over after Hoiberg.

Underwood seems to have the most support behind TJ when it comes to people in the know. I've heard the most about TJ, followed by Underwood, then Prohm, and a distant fourth is Drew. Nobody talks about Moton (likely an interview just to appease certain parties).



Thank you.

Underwood and TJ would be an exciting combo.

I don't get the comments about any successor being a disappointment after Fred. even if we go the cheap route, I am looking forward to having some hungry young coaches needing to prove themselves. Now, excitement for JP? Do CPA's internalize opportunity cost?

 

[Dopey]

Scott Drew makes 2.4 million year at Baylor and that program has been a Top 25 squad consistently. And you know how many people care in Waco; about 5k. At 3.5 million he should consider making the leap. He always has spoken highly, almost with envy, about our fan support. And he is a great recruiter. No school in the Big 12 has ever had talent on par with Kansas most years; Drew has. He would guarantee that this program would not slip but rather stabilize in the Top 25. And I guarantee he would recruit the hell out of Chicago, Minneapolis and Kansas City. He would be a home run IMO.

Yeah, I wasn't joking

 

[tyler24]

Why does JP want to go so cheap?

I've heard speciation he is attempting to save money to reincarnate Johnny Orr and make a clone of Fred to create a dream staff at ISU. We are very early in the process, but my sources are legit!

 

[Jeremy]

I really appreciate this summation of what you know. I think it helps clarify the situation where it's at right now for most of us.

Thank you. I think the fewer the words, the clearer it is and leads to less interpretation.

 

[Wesley]

Why don't you actually explain it with an example.

If the most money you can make in your profession is 400K, and someone offers to pay you that, you're going to consider it no matter if you already make 200k or 300k.

I don't think that ISU is going to be giving a $2 million raise to a level between $3 million and $4 million to a coach who is making under $1.5 million right now.

Give me an example of who you think it could possibly be. Because when you look at it, it's absurd.

Can we pay 5M to Fred and get him back?

 

[Scott34]

I always get told that he's a CPA and budget is his first and primary priority. It has been to our benefit over the years, but the comment I made a couple days ago about a lot of donors and interested parties feeling like he wants to continue running at the level that he first came in at, like we're the little school on the prairie, rings true.

This is basically where I was trying to go with my "being so cheap" comment. He is obviously raising the standard at ISU so he needs to adjust some things as he goes.

 

[HoibergIsMyHero]

Also about Underwood - I bet if there's any non-mystery candidate up for it against TJ, I bet it's him. His win percentage is ridiculous especially for a 1st time HC at almost .900. I can only think of one other legendary coach who put up those kind of numbers before going to a big time school and that was Jerry Tarkanian when he was at Long Beach State. Most of the other legendary coaches had win pcts of between .640 and .730 before jumping ship to more power schools.

SFA also lost to Utah by 7 in the NCAA tournament. The same Utah team who lost to eventual national champs Duke by 6 in the Sweet 16 (the same Duke team that beat Michigan State by 20 in the Final Four). The game against Utah was a 2 point game with under 1 minute left and with the exception of a handful of minutes mid thru the 2nd half, it was a close game for most of it.

No, please don't tell me you're using the transitive property...

 

[kingcy]

I tend to agree with that as well, because I don't see us ever getting really good at football.

However, can JP pay all the bills with a lousy football program and a really good basketball program? I guess schools like KU, and Duke can do it, so maybe we could? I don't know that answer.

He needs football to be relative. It is easier to sell advertising to companies when you have some fan interest in football. Beyond seating Hilton basketball can bring in money from new outside companies if it stays on top. With most games on the main ESPNs and sports fans watching a company can get good bang for their buck advertising inside Hilton, and that inturn could allow JP to increase how much they get for those spots.

 

[Stormin]

Why does JP want to go so cheap?

I look at it as he wants to get value for money spent. Spending a whole lot of money for someone perceived to not be any better than a lower priced candidate is just being foolish IMO. Why spend money just to spend money. Get something for the money spent. If the coach we want is worth the money he will spend it. If two coaches are comparable and one is significantly cheaper then it only makes sense to not spend the money.

 

[CycloneBax]

If we have money, I want an NBA coach....Mark Jackson, Scott Brooks, etc

 

[marothisu]

Underwood seems to have the most support behind TJ when it comes to people in the know. I've heard the most about TJ, followed by Underwood, then Prohm, and a distant fourth is Drew. Nobody talks about Moton (likely an interview just to appease certain parties).

I'm not surprised. TJ I think has traction because he's already known to the program and while I don't know everything there is to know, he definitely has the lowest sample size to work from. I think what Underwood has accomplished in 2 years is actually amazing. A 90% win percentage is downright ridiculous no matter what level it's at.

I know he's not a splash hire, but if he were introduced as the coach I would be neither surprised nor unhappy. However, I really want to know about these mystery candidates but I understand you have to keep it secret I wish though we could know if these guys have any NBA experience whatsoever (whether it's coaching or playing for 2 games).

 

[jtdoyle1]

I don't know if this point has been made yet but if you are starting with a big salary ($3-$4 million) where do you have to go if they have success and want a raise? What if they fail and you need to fire them... Can you imagine the buyout? Our AD may be able to afford a coaches salary like that but we do not have the budget to miss on hire of that magnitude. That would cripple our program. So if you go big it better be a can't miss hire (if there is such a thing).

On top of all that when you start shelling big money that also lets the next coach you hire that you should be able to afford it for him too. Pollard has a lot to think about with program defining decision.