Ok, so in my mind 12 teams and not playing OU and UT every year let us be a much better football program. IMO ISU needs to make a big push for expansion this year, ideally to 14 teams. Raiding the Big 10, SEC or other Big 5 conferences are not allowed. Who do you target? For basketball or football or both? A Florida team helps recruiting, but thins out the conference, a west coast team expands the TV base, but does the same.
Big12 Expansion
- Thread starter Bigbobhoss
- Start date
Here's the thing...
EVEN if the Big 12 expanded back to 12 or 14 teams, the league would still likely play a nine game conference schedule due to television. The days of a four-game non-con look to be well in the rearview mirror.
And the day that Iowa State is in a position to make a "big push" for expansion, I'll own some oceanfront property in Arizona.
Big 12 is already a killer basketball conference. Getting AZ would make it completely insane
HoopsTournament
Well-Known Member
We won 3 games last year and 2 so far this year and Texas beat us by a grand total of 4 points in two games. Texas is not the reason we are losing.
The only way this makes sense is if the new teams add more than they take. This is a difficult proposition.
Here's the tool I'm using for this: http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/20...-college-football-fans-and-realignment-chaos/ It's not perfect, but it's probably the best that we have.
The Big 12 fanbases rank:
#5 Texas
#19 Oklahoma
#29 West Virginia
#33 Texas Tech
#40 Kansas
#41 Oklahoma State
#52 Iowa State
#60 Kansas State
#65 TCU
#85 Baylor
Of course you can make the claim that these have changed over the last three years (this work was produced in 2011) - I would tend to agree in certain cases, especially with Baylor as they are probably higher than #85 today. But let's assume that it's all a wash, because again, we don't have better numbers.
The Big 12 average ranking of fanbase is 42.9. Meaning that any two schools that average out below that would be viable additions financially. Factor in the new money from a conference championship game that they would allow, and we could go to a slightly higher number than 42.9 and still come out ahead.
Now here are the potentially realistic options:
#43 BYU
#47 UConn
#53 USF
#55 UCF
#57 Boise State
#68 East Carolina
#70 Cincinnati
Any other school that you can think of (not already in a Power 5 conference or named Notre Dame) ranks higher than #70 and is essentially out of the running.
No school comes in "above average," although BYU is almost right on the average. UConn is close, and the Florida schools (plus Boise) are also somewhat close.
If the Big 12 was going to expand, I think a hard look would need to given to BYU, UConn, and UCF especially. I think UCF has more potential for growth than USF.
Of course, the Big 12 doesn't have to expand, and it isn't going to expand, so this is all a very moot point. I just prefer to look at these numbers when having our conversations instead of the people who just toss out a school like New Mexico because "it's growing." (New Mexico ranks #94 in fanbase.)
Here's the tool I'm using for this: http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/20...-college-football-fans-and-realignment-chaos/ It's not perfect, but it's probably the best that we have.
The Big 12 fanbases rank:
#5 Texas
#19 Oklahoma
#29 West Virginia
#33 Texas Tech
#40 Kansas
#41 Oklahoma State
#52 Iowa State
#60 Kansas State
#65 TCU
#85 Baylor
Of course you can make the claim that these have changed over the last three years (this work was produced in 2011) - I would tend to agree in certain cases, especially with Baylor as they are probably higher than #85 today. But let's assume that it's all a wash, because again, we don't have better numbers.
The Big 12 average ranking of fanbase is 42.9. Meaning that any two schools that average out below that would be viable additions financially. Factor in the new money from a conference championship game that they would allow, and we could go to a slightly higher number than 42.9 and still come out ahead.
Now here are the potentially realistic options:
#43 BYU
#47 UConn
#53 USF
#55 UCF
#57 Boise State
#68 East Carolina
#70 Cincinnati
Any other school that you can think of (not already in a Power 5 conference or named Notre Dame) ranks higher than #70 and is essentially out of the running.
No school comes in "above average," although BYU is almost right on the average. UConn is close, and the Florida schools (plus Boise) are also somewhat close.
If the Big 12 was going to expand, I think a hard look would need to given to BYU, UConn, and UCF especially. I think UCF has more potential for growth than USF.
Of course, the Big 12 doesn't have to expand, and it isn't going to expand, so this is all a very moot point. I just prefer to look at these numbers when having our conversations instead of the people who just toss out a school like New Mexico because "it's growing." (New Mexico ranks #94 in fanbase.)
The Big12 may add three teams to get to a 12 team league.......do the math. One team/program may have its ties severed and be forced to leave for the American Conference.....
I will bump this post later when it happens.
I will bump this post later when it happens.
HoopsTournament
Well-Known Member
Iowa State was outvoted 9-1 on how many referees to have on the field. And you want it to make a big push to expand? Iowa State can't make a big push to have blue pens instead of black pens at the conference meeting. totally impotent.
Why is this the case? Could we push to have every team schedule one power 5 OOC team every year? We have iowa, Texas vs a&m, OU vs Nebraska, KU vs MU etc.
BYU
Memphis
San Diego St
Cinci
Pretty much in that order. Memphis football is good all of a sudden and they have better fan support in BB than Cinci. SD St is a shot at the Pac 12 and would go well with BYU.
Memphis
San Diego St
Cinci
Pretty much in that order. Memphis football is good all of a sudden and they have better fan support in BB than Cinci. SD St is a shot at the Pac 12 and would go well with BYU.
I'd consider BYU for football only and on the same basis as Notre 'Dame's arrangement with the ACC - ND retains rights to its home games and plays 3 away ACC games/year. ND receives approx. $4M/year for its Olympic sports and nothing for its football. Therefore, BYU would get 6 football games with the Big 12 and nothing else. If BYU won its division in the Big 12, it would have the opportunity to play in a Big 12 conference championship game. This would not reduce the annual payout to the current Big 12 members.
Regarding the twelfth spot, I would defer to West Virginia to select its conference rival among UConn, Cincy, E Carolina, UCF or Memphis. This member would receive graduated funding like TCU and West Virginia.
An alternative, if adding four, would be BYU as discussed above and Air Force, Army and Navy as partial members. Split any additional conference revenue among the three service academies.
Regarding the twelfth spot, I would defer to West Virginia to select its conference rival among UConn, Cincy, E Carolina, UCF or Memphis. This member would receive graduated funding like TCU and West Virginia.
An alternative, if adding four, would be BYU as discussed above and Air Force, Army and Navy as partial members. Split any additional conference revenue among the three service academies.
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I think these #s are often ignored in favor of simple populations and that doesn't make sense. If it was about pure population in big markets the Big Ten would never have taken Neb, they take them because of the #s you posted here. If it was about pure population the Big 12 would have taken Tulane and about 20 other schools before they took WVU...but WVU was the clear best school out there at the time. (Using your #s of fanbase here)
It SHOULDN'T take a championship game for us, but the media and I'm guessing the selection committee is just way too dumb to be expected to do math. Right now 6 teams out of the 42 in the SEC, Big Ten and ACC play 9 games and the others only play 8 filling the extra game with mostly Sun Belt and MAC schools the Big Ten can't even beat. 10 of our 10 teams play 9 games. When Minnesota and Iowa are serious potential B1G championship game participants any honest person with a brain should admit a championship game means zippity do da as a playoff birth requirement. Unfortunately we threw away the 1/3 logical part of the process for a complete BS selection committee.
I seriously think the MAC and MWC may be making a mistake for not begging that herd of traveling fans to buy a ridiculous amount of tickets at road games, they have plenty of open seats. Could make it a football only deal for the best interest of everyone.
IMO with the new playoff format, the Big 12 has it right in being a ten team conference. We play every team in our conference, so there is no need to have a conference championship game.
I feel that the playoff will expand to 8 and each of the Big 5 conference champs will get an automatic berth. In that environment, I like being in a 10 team conference vs. 14 teams.
I feel that the playoff will expand to 8 and each of the Big 5 conference champs will get an automatic berth. In that environment, I like being in a 10 team conference vs. 14 teams.
You should be right, but we live in a world where 99% of the media was saying Baylor should be out because of SOS and Michigan State should be in because of a great loss against Oregon...Baylor has a higher SOS than Michigan State.
Any system that's not at least 1/3 computer formulated or over half from conference champs is going to be rigged for the SEC and Big Ten. The SEC deserves the favoritism from its record on the field, the Big Ten clearly does not.