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Can't be much fun for the wrestlers

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psyclone51

Active Member
Nov 6, 2011
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Lots of contributors have focused on the coach, but let's take some time to think about our wrestlers. This cannot be much fun. For a minute, let's forget about our pride, our disappintment, our history and our expectations of KJ.

This whole situation cannot be much fun for the wrestlers. They are a relatively young team, and need leadership and direction. They don't have a Jon Reader or Jake Varner on the team any more, so they need a boost more than any other time in the past 3 years.

If you have not experienced it yourself, put yourself in the shoes of our wrestlers. They lost, and lost ugly, to Old Dominion in front of their own fans. Then, they lose and lose bad to Iowa in front of more than 9,000 Iowa fans. This is all on top of last year with few tournament qualifiers and no AAs.

My heart really goes out to these guys. I am not saying they do not carry some of the responsiblity for what is happening, but they are still young men....
 
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I do feel bad for the wrestlers, but they need to look in the mirror. It is gut check time.

The coach can not go out and wrestle for the guys. Once they hit the mat, it is on the individual wrestler. They are not performing up to their potential. Many of the guys were decently high recruits coming out of high school. A large part of their lack of development may be on Coach Jackson, but at some point they have to take responsibility.

As far as not having a Varner or Reader for a leader, someone needs to step up. After Reader graduated, Sorenson stepped up to that leadership role and did a great job IMO. Now it is time for someone else to step up. Every school graduates leaders every year, it is up to the guys still in the room to develop that leadership.
 
I do not understand why they look tired and are not in better shape. This is big time wrestling and not intramurals. They need to find more passion and drive and aggressiveness.
 
cyfan9 said:
I do feel bad for the wrestlers, but they need to look in the mirror. It is gut check time.

The coach can not go out and wrestle for the guys. Once they hit the mat, it is on the individual wrestler. They are not performing up to their potential. Many of the guys were decently high recruits coming out of high school. A large part of their lack of development may be on Coach Jackson, but at some point they have to take responsibility.

As far as not having a Varner or Reader for a leader, someone needs to step up. After Reader graduated, Sorenson stepped up to that leadership role and did a great job IMO. Now it is time for someone else to step up. Every school graduates leaders every year, it is up to the guys still in the room to develop that leadership.
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Everything you say is true. But, it ignores the role of coaching; who do you propose on this team "step up" as you say? Not one AA on the team! Coaches build teams, and after 4 years, KJ should have a blend of upper and lower classmen. You can talk tough, and demand tough, and you can yell at the kids and so on. But a young team needs leadership, and confidence building. They are not getting that - and that is why it can't be fun for them.
 
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Its the coaches job to get them up and ready to wrestle. Young old whatever the team should atleast show up. In wrestling coaching makes a HUGE difference.
 
I like KJ and the team. They are still young but they are key factors with the development of new recruits in the years to come. And as the depth grows with experience, we wont have to depend on any incoming freshman too bring us hope. Then KJ can redshirt any freshman that needs it. It's still early and believe they can finish strong.
 
Cycrip2012 said:
I like KJ and the team. They are still young but they are key factors with the development of new recruits in the years to come. And as the depth grows with experience, we wont have to depend on any incoming freshman too bring us hope. Then KJ can redshirt any freshman that needs it. It's still early and believe they can finish strong.
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So why hasn't KJ done what you describe the last 3 years? It is apparent to most of us that he can't recruit or develop talent like the IA, Mn and Okie States of the world. I have not seen a single wrestler improve from 1 year to the next since KJ got the job. I am not saying he is a bad person but his past history at the OTC has the same glaring results. There is a reason Zeke Jones is the new coach and not KJ. I would ask you to name a single wrestler on this team that has benefited in development under KJ?
 
Chop said:
So why hasn't KJ done what you describe the last 3 years? It is apparent to most of us that he can't recruit or develop talent like the IA, Mn and Okie States of the world. I have not seen a single wrestler improve from 1 year to the next since KJ got the job. I am not saying he is a bad person but his past history at the OTC has the same glaring results. There is a reason Zeke Jones is the new coach and not KJ. I would ask you to name a single wrestler on this team that has benefited in development under KJ?
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Ah, there was ...., but how about ...., ah, maybe, yet there is ...., well, maybe you have a point.

What will it take to get some drive back? Do we have to wrestle passive aggressive to keep the scores down? Can we not pump it up at game time? How are we going to get the gas back into the tank? Do we have to watch film of old championships? Why are we not better than this? All our other sports are.
 
Chop said:
So why hasn't KJ done what you describe the last 3 years? It is apparent to most of us that he can't recruit or develop talent like the IA, Mn and Okie States of the world. I have not seen a single wrestler improve from 1 year to the next since KJ got the job. I am not saying he is a bad person but his past history at the OTC has the same glaring results. There is a reason Zeke Jones is the new coach and not KJ. I would ask you to name a single wrestler on this team that has benefited in development under KJ?
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Jon Reader was a top recruit when he came in for Cael, and was mired in the middle of the pack at his weight until he started wrestling under KJ. Now you can say he just figured it out, but he was vastly improved at 174 his senior year, and to say it was all Jon and no KJ just seems like a statement without basis.
 
psyclone51 said:
Everything you say is true. But, it ignores the role of coaching; who do you propose on this team "step up" as you say? Not one AA on the team! Coaches build teams, and after 4 years, KJ should have a blend of upper and lower classmen. You can talk tough, and demand tough, and you can yell at the kids and so on. But a young team needs leadership, and confidence building. They are not getting that - and that is why it can't be fun for them.
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I did say "a large part of their lack of development may be on Coach Jackson", but I will expand. I think our coaching has been subpar to say the least. It is clear to me KJ's recruiting inexperienc has hurt him as well as not being able to develop decent talent. None of the guys on the team are blue chippers (except for Meeks and depending on your definition maybe KG), but Varner and Reader seemed to improve under KJ. Some of that was most likely just being ayear older as well. I do not think anyone is content with the coaching job KJ has done, and there will be a new coah next year if not sooner. I personally feel this topic has been beaten to death.

I think just blaming coaching is giving the athletes a pass. Too many wrestlers spent way too much time completely flat on their belly once taken down. At some point a beaten dog needs to fight back.

As far as leadership goes, I don't htink there is a doubt that you want upperclassmen as your leaders. Spangler would be the leader, but team leaders need to be participating so that also eliminates Mayfield. So I would look to Finch, LG, Bear and Gibson. This is the third year Finch and LG have been in the room.

I am not in the room so I don't know who does step up, but someone needs to. And yes I know, you can't fake leadership. Everyone that has been on sports teams knows leaders cannot be appointed. They earn the respect of their teammates through their actions and words. I would be severely disappointed if we do not have anyone in that room that can fill that position.

If we don't and KJ is not providing it, I would look directly at Travis Paulson. He has been a part of the Cyclone wrestling program for a long time and was a great leader as an athlete.
 
How many years will it take to develop this needed leadership?

Can we beat UNI?

How many dyal meets will we win?
 
As far as leadership goes, I don't htink there is a doubt that you want upperclassmen as your leaders. Spangler would be the leader, but team leaders need to be participating so that also eliminates Mayfield. So I would look to Finch, LG, Bear and Gibson. This is the third year Finch and LG have been in the room



I hear the leaders are LG and Kyven. Not sure about Boaz and Mikey - I hear they both work real hard.
 
psyclone51 said:
Everything you say is true. But, it ignores the role of coaching; who do you propose on this team "step up" as you say? Not one AA on the team! Coaches build teams, and after 4 years, KJ should have a blend of upper and lower classmen. You can talk tough, and demand tough, and you can yell at the kids and so on. But a young team needs leadership, and confidence building. They are not getting that - and that is why it can't be fun for them.
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So...only an AA can step up and be leader?
 
brett108 said:
Jon Reader was a top recruit when he came in for Cael, and was mired in the middle of the pack at his weight until he started wrestling under KJ. Now you can say he just figured it out, but he was vastly improved at 174 his senior year, and to say it was all Jon and no KJ just seems like a statement without basis.
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As a freshman Jon was the 6 seed and finished 7th in 2008.

As a sophomore Jon was the 8 seed and finished 4th in 2009. I think he should have won the title that year. He lost in TB2 in the semis to the 12 seed King that went on to win it. IMO that was one of the more frustrating matches I have watched in a long time.

As a junior Jon was the 4th seed and lost in the round of 12. That was the tournament he got hurt (concussion) in one of his first matches and just didn't look right at all.

And as a senior he was the 1 seed that won the tourney. This was up at 174. IIRC, he had stated that the cut to 165 was hard and he felt much stronger at 174.

So to me, Jon was not "mired in the middle of the pack at his weight until he started wrestling under KJ". I think he did improve a lot between his junior year and senior year. In no particular order 1) I believe the disappointment of not being an AA his jr year and losing the potential to be a 4x AA was a huge personal motivation factor. Think he took his out of season workout regimine to a whole new level. 2) He spent a lot of extra time with TnT. 3) Think KJ provided a different coaching style and did improve his arsenol. 4) The weight cut was not as bad.

If a 6 seed, an 8 seed, and a 4th seed (and 2x AA before Sr year) is "middle of the pack" than PLEASE PLEASE give me 10 middle of the pack guys!
 
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cyfan9 said:
As a freshman Jon was the 6 seed and finished 7th in 2008.

As a sophomore Jon was the 8 seed and finished 4th in 2009. I think he should have won the title that year. He lost in TB2 in the semis to the 12 seed King that went on to win it. IMO that was one of the more frustrating matches I have watched in a long time.

As a junior Jon was the 4th seed and lost in the round of 12. That was the tournament he got hurt (concussion) in one of his first matches and just didn't look right at all.

And as a senior he was the 1 seed that won the tourney. This was up at 174. IIRC, he had stated that the cut to 165 was hard and he felt much stronger at 174.

So to me, Jon was not "mired in the middle of the pack at his weight until he started wrestling under KJ". I think he did improve a lot between his junior year and senior year. In no particular order 1) I believe the disappointment of not being an AA his jr year and losing the potential to be a 4x AA was a huge personal motivation factor. Think he took his out of season workout regimine to a whole new level. 2) He spent a lot of extra time with TnT. 3) Think KJ provided a different coaching style and did improve his arsenol. 4) The weight cut was not as bad.

If a 6 seed, an 8 seed, and a 4th seed (and 2x AA before Sr year) is "middle of the pack" than PLEASE PLEASE give me 10 middle of the pack guys!
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Thanks Cyfan9 for pointing out the facts. Reader was really good before KJ arrived. Sure KJ gets to say Reader won a title under him but how much did KJ develop Jon? I don't think enough to say without a doubt Jon wouldn't have won it without him as coach.
 
I believe the coach can only do so much. But if you ever wrestled, a lot of your development comes from your senior or upper classmate. Without those kind of guys in the room it will take more time to develop. And you just can't have one guy, but a multiple amount of them. For the light, middle and heavy weights. And those guys just haven't had those kind of guys in the room on a consistent basis. And I don't think any coach that ISU gets can come and change the program overnight. But in due time ISU will get better and be back on top.
 
without a quality coach the wrestlers won't do well either. Funny thing, I think ISU's new motto should be, "the place where you can send a talented hard working wrestlers, break them down until they question their desire and abilities.. the end."
 
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